Doomsday+1

[Pangurban]

Re my last post and Dublinfellas Query,,,,did it come to you in a dream?
Well wise man,riddle me this, what if the dream come true...will you are anyone be surprised. You are not a fool man,wake up and smell the Coffee. I did not say the scenario i painted will happen, merely that certain elements will push for it too happen. As for the healthy coffers of the I.R.F.U. and F.A.I. Wait till they pay their debts, then we will see how healthy they are.

[dublinfella]

Re my last post and Dublinfellas Query,,,,did it come to you in a dream?
Well wise man,riddle me this, what if the dream come true...will you are anyone be surprised. You are not a fool man,wake up and smell the Coffee. I did not say the scenario i painted will happen, merely that certain elements will push for it too happen. As for the healthy coffers of the I.R.F.U. and F.A.I. Wait till they pay their debts, then we will see how healthy they are.

what debts? what elements?

yes, i would be extremely surprised if there was a machievellian conspiracy whereby the FAI, IRFU and Governemnt are secretly working to scupper LR's redevelopment to move into CP on a permanent bases. because its paranoid bollocks.

[full back]

Maybe I will make a tube of myself here, but on Bloody Sunday was the game between the Dubs & Tipp a challenge game?
If so Adrian Logan needs a history lesson as he said it was the All Ireland final that was taking place in his report on Friday evening

[lynchbhoy]

Leave the anthems as they are, people will gladly accept Amhrain na Bhfiann in the future when the Island re-unifies as who would want that irelands call dirge. A GAA style vote with the majority's preferance to win.

as for the hype - holee feck, never seen or heard so much of it in my lifetime.
We are now out-Englanding England !!
First it was 'the grand slam' talk all January, then since the french game it was the triple crown, now its the fecking rugby world cup. FFS ! Jeez, I dont think Ireland are that good ! Anything happens to OGara and its curtains.

What is annoying me is the hype starting over the 'right' to play rugby matches in 2008. Not the 3 games in the 6 nations, but the three 'friendlies' that the IRFU have pencilled in v New Zealand and two others.

some of my rugby friends are telling me that they 'HAVE TO' be played in Croke park. I said that they have not been sanctioned to be played yet - as only the meaningful 6N games were.
The answer is that 'there are no friendlies in rugby - all games are important' therefore the games MUST go ahead in croke park.

So it is their God given right to play rugby games in croker now, wait until the media pick up on this one to start their bandwagon and serial whinging and bleating about GAA spoilsports taking taxpayers money and not allowing rugby to be played etc etc etc

[bottlethrower7]

And as for cycles, I for one wouldn't be happy for the damage that could be done during however many years rugby will be on its current high. The GAA need to fight its corner, and one way of doing that is not to assist rugby, or any other competing code, any further.

You'd swear they were getting it for free

its worse. Its tantamount to us paying them to take it. Sure, the GAA get whatever measly amount they get, but weigh it up;

Game in Lansdowne road, IRFU get; Gate receipts + a certain level of exposure + a certain level of goodwill
Game in Croker, IRFU get; Gate receipts (twice or triple what they'd get above) - rent + exposure thats off the scales + goodwill beyond their wildest imagination.

is the 'rent' in the above enough to make one think the latter of the 2 is the best deal for the GAA? Not a bit of it.

I guarantee you, the talk of the primary school kids this morning isn't Dublin vs Donegal, or Kilkenny vs Wexford, or anything else GAA related.

I have no major problem with rugby and if they were able to go off and generate everything good that happened their sport and their game, more power to them. The fact is, the GAA facilitated them earning far more than they really deserved last saturday.

[thewobbler]

BT7 - I'll repeat a point I made earlier to TYP. If you really believe that the current hype surrounding Irish rugby owes more to the GAA opening Croke Park than it does to the fact that this is a truly vintage crop of Irish players then, with all due respect, your head is rather firmly stuck up your arse.

Just because rugby never played a part in your life prior to a fortnight ago does not mean the game wasn't thriving. What is happening with rugby at present has been building for nearly five years. it was obvious the talent was coming through, and Eddie O'Sullivan is moulding them to perfection.

Ireland just beat the world champions by 30 points. If that isn't a sporting achievement worth shouting about, I don't know what is. It's a World Cup year and Ireland are one of the favourites. That has to be worth singing and dancing about.

Yet after St Patrick's weekend, live rugby will disappear off our terrestrial tv screens until the end of the summer, and all those kids in primary schools won't have rugby to talk about until then. Who knows, they may even talk about football and hurling instead.

It isn't a threat.

[Hardy]

Sorry for the long post, but I have to get it off my chest ...

I know their presumption is irritating, but why would we, the GAA, NOT want these extra rugby games next Autumn to be played in CP? Leave aside the hype and the way the media gets up our noses with demands on the goodwill of the GAA as if it was our business to bail out economic and sporting basket cases from all corners of Irish society. And the way they congratulate us for finally reaching their level of sophistication and managing to carry the whole thing off without letting the pig into the parlour while the fairy cakes were being served. (Though when you listen to J.J. Barrett and his ilk, it can be hard to blame them for their attitude). Leave all that aside and rise above it.

What would be a sensible case for forgoing €1.5M per match while it is available to us? Wouldn't any sane, rational member of the GAA (i.e. leaving out the J.J. Barrett tendency) demand from Central Council an explanation of why they missed this opportunity if it was available? Isn't that how it should work, rather than the arse-backways approach that only we seem to be capable of? The approach that does the opposite and demands that we refuse any and all opportunities to earn development revenue for our sport, if they come with the label 'rugby' or 'soccer'. We charge these people with the efficient administration of our organisation. They would be irresponsible in the extreme if they behaved so foolishly with the organisation's finances, for no good reason other than to pander to the prejudices and paranoia of a few.

What sense would it make, even in the context of our unrivalled ability to accord exaggerated reverence to the past, to start picking and choosing matches that are worthy of our approval, on anything but a sound commercial basis? The genie is out of the bottle. The infidels have come and gone. We have either been raped or enjoyed a romp with the strangers, depending on your point of view. (I dunno about you, but I enjoyed it – it didn't feel like rape to me!).We cannot now restore our pure gaelic virginity by reluctantly allowing just a few rugby matches, but not too many, mind.

Tom Humphries made the point that if the past matters so much to the GAA that it compromises its future, then the GAA has failed. I can't better that.

I would actually love to see the scenario Pangur Ban fears, come into play. I'd hate to see these funds switched off in a few years and I think to allow it would be almost criminal mismanagement. We have the only usable stadium in the country and some of us are clamouring for a competitive stadium to be built! Crazy stuff. People seem to forget we own the bloody place and can decide when it is and isn't available for rent.  Central Council is in charge. It has people at the gate waving money at it. It can at any time say "No. The Cumann na mBunscoil finals are on that Saturday. Sorry. If you can reschedule to the following week, we'd be happy to accommodate you".

What I'd expect is an outcome somewhere between the extremes of returning to bans and protectionism on the one hand and the scrapping of Lansdowne on the other. I think we'll end up with two stadiums, but an agreement will be reached whereby CP will be available for the games for which a 50K capacity isn't enough. I'd trust our administrators to wrangle a very attractive deal for such a long term arrangement – i.e. more government money.

Try not to be paranoid lads. How can it be anything but positive that we're utilising our strongest commercial asset throughout the winter months when we've no use for it ourselves?

[bottlethrower7]

Hardy, your argument is economic, and when argued in such a fashion (purely from a business point of view, talking about the bottom line on the balance sheet) of course it makes sense.

You fail to mention the negative, or weigh up whether the gain outweighs it. In my mind it doesn't. We've facilitated competing organisations in making far more money than they could have on their own, and we've given them a shop window that makes their game very appealing to the very life-blood of our organisation - the youth.

Like I said before, if rugby or soccer can go and make that money on their own, or make their game that appealing all on their own, well and good. I don't see why we should help them in a way that will have a knock-on affect of taking the kids that we need for the future of our games.

One of the most promising young hurlers in my club is also a keen rugby player. I hate to think where his preferences are right now. I only hope that rugby is well out of the spotlight when he has to make a decision about which road to follow. And I've given the Limerick example already.

[lynchbhoy]

when it comes to money Hardy I will take it and ask for more..

but the annoyance of these people demanding and telling us (as members) when and whare we have to open our grouns etc is painful.

in the scenarios you depict, I have to fully agree and say yes, open up the gates and take the money - no sense not to
but in the even that they want to play a game that clashses with the likes of cummun na mbunscoil etc
thats when the bleating will go on and I believe that again , WE the GAA  will be depicted as the villains.

should be a charge of 2million per game also...

[SammyG]

BT7

Do you have the same problem with the GAA clubs who use rugby and soccer pitches and training facilities, or is it purely a one-way street?

[stephenite]

And I've given the Limerick example already.

I've been thinking about that example all day BT, would it not be fair to say that Rugby has always had a traditional base in Limerick city, moreso than any other large urban area in the country? I'm not from there and haven't spent too much time there, so my Im interested in terms of the discussion. I'm sure I've read about how Limerick, through such clubs as Young Munster was one of the few places in the country where the 'ordinary man' was welcomed into Rugby clubs, bucking a national trend where Rugby was seen as the game for the middle-upper classes.
Soccer would traditionally be the sport of choice for the majority of the citizens of places like Sligo and Dundalk, always has been.

2.5 million Lynchboy,and if it clashes with a national school tour of the museum,they can head up to Parnell Park

[Hardy]

Lads, you know my answer to the 'balance of benefit' argument. I can't see how we're losing. The rugby games would take place anyhow. Our young lads would see them on TV anyhow. They already know rugby exists and know where to find the TV schedules. This way, we get something (a very handsome something) out of it. If the games had taken place in Cardiff, we'd have got nothing. Sorry, that's wrong. We'd have got a hell of a lot of misinformed negative publicity that would have been much more harmful negative propaganda in the minds of our youngsters than two weekends of hype that will be forgotten in a week.

[brokencrossbar1]

I am a traditionalist in how I view the game and always have been.  I see the GAA as something sacrosanct and believe that as a sport and an organisation it is more than just a facility to play sport.  I view the history of the game as a central to the development of the future of the game as it instills in young children the sense of belonging to something special.

I screamed and shouted at the television on Saturady afternoon as I watched a special game of Rugby.  As has been pointed out we currently have the best group of rugby players for many years and are probably the best collective group ever in the history of the game in Ireland.  I leave that judgement to more knowledgeable rugby heads.  

Like has been posted though, the current upsurge in popularity is based on this team and not on any opening up of Croke Park.  My son loves watching it , he has his Ireland jersey, he has his rugby ball.  He, sometimes, goes to rugby in the local club.  The reality though is, when push come to shove he will never miss his hurling on a Friday night.  He has no problem in missing rugby.  If I threaten him he is not going to hurling if he is a brat then his behaviour very quickly changes.

The reality is that rugby is currently experiencing the feel good factor of a successful team.  In the GAA, there are new heroes every year, be it Stevie McDonnell, the Gooch, Sean Og, King Henry.  Come May, when the weather is good and school holidays are coming up kids will be out in their county jerseys, knowing points over like their current heroes and that will  keep going.  The GAA will have to make sure tahat the cow is well milked for as long as possible, and make sure that teh long term strategy is well thought out.

[thebandit]

Lads, we have to remember that the current rugby team are all around 27-28, what shape will the international team be in when those lads are gone?

[zoyler]

Hardy & Brokencrossbar have the right of it.
I have followed GAA & Rugby for a long time and can remember times when Rugby tickets and AIF tickets were easy got.  Good times come and go for both sports and both are very well run in this country aand the respect and trust in each other is evident from the body language. Come the end of Spring young lads will start back at Football & Hurling, Rugby will disappear with the end of the 6 nations & Heiniken Cup and the usual rythms of the sporting year will reassert themselves. 
Saturday was fantastic - especially if you were there - nearly but not as goos as your own winning the AIF- but there is room for us all.