Bertie Ahern - retires

[INDIANA]

Peelo was Bertie's Accountant - not a paid up member .  He represented both Ahern and Haughey at the bloody Tribunals.

You dont seem to see the paltry appointments to the semi states was the issue. When you talk about the scale of corruption and the millions he made. This is how he did it. By appointing all his mates to the boards he controlled all of them. This allowed him to rezone sites and lands that many of these Semi States owned.

By appointing his trusted lieutenants to the most powerful companies in Ireland. This is how he got to be best mates with all the Developers. He came into contact with all of them. One of the Mafia would make sure he was introduced to one of them. Bertie would look after things. And they looked after him financially for doing so. Sean Dunne, Ronan etc are all mates of his.

Bertie is a multi milionaire. Recently in a raffle in the Beaumont House about 6 months ago there was a 10k prize. Guess who won first prize. Yep you got it Bertie.

There is no justice in the world.

beresford is a 4 bed modern detached house off griffith avenue, hardly a mansion.

Not that it really matters, but just because Peelo represented Ahern doesn't mean that he was in the mafia, Peelo is one of very few forensic accountants in this country (before the big 4 started attempting to get in on the market a few years ago - and there's no way they'd have touched ahern once they heard his explanations) he was always going to be one of the few people capable of constructing some sort of defence for both Ahern and Haughey.

Given Bertie's lack of tax returns prior to 2007, he clearly did not retain any accountant personally.

I understand your point about his lieutenants on semi states,  but i don't agree that they had any real control.  Take Chris Wall at Aer Lingus or Joe Burke at the Dublin Port, what influence did those guys really have?

Bertie lives in a de-thatched 6 bed house.  Beresford has a section called millionaire row- locally called. He lives there. Do you want to take a picture of it? .

You dont need tax returns when you're Taoiseach. How naive are you? I mean seriously you're using the lack of a tax return as evidence of Bertie being financially compliant? This is the man who spent a decade passing himself off as a qualified accountant. Peelo would do whatever Bertie wanted him to do. As I said peelo was appointed to plenty of boards because of it. The CRC and others to name just one.

Chris Wall was a director at Aer Lingus for 11 years. Nothing happened on that board that wasnt reported back to Bertie. To indicate Wall's power- he was the only director to survive the privatisation clearout in 2006. He only left in 2008 of his own volition. Wall was even a senator - again appointed by Ahern. Again Ahern controlled Aer Lingus through him. Just ask people if you dont believe me.

Burke was chairman of Dublin Port - how is that not influential? Lets not forget he only left in 2009.

Ironic thats its taken so long for people to start writing books on this. It went on for 20 years virtually un-noticed. Ross has a good book on it at the moment called Wasters- not specifically about Bertie but it shows how the system works.

[INDIANA]

Has he moved out of Beresford? Why would he- its his bloody house. Electric Fences, squad car outside etc- the usual ensemble that represents Irelands destitute public servants. Not to mention all the other properties that nobody talks about. (why)

Now that would be interesting, do share.

The story is that he has significant overseas property interests. Nobody has proven it but to be honest nobody has really looked. Simply because its old news now with the recession, the IMF etc.
This is a guy who didnt have a bank account. Sorry- Irish bank account!

God knows what he's salted away.

[Tony Baloney]

He was Bertie the loveable rogue when youse were buying overseas property and new cars every other year. Did anyone tell the Bank Manager they didn't want an extension on their credit limit or a bigger mortgage as they'd be in diffs if their circumstances  changed?! Funny how the worm turns.

[Hardy]

You add Charlie Chawke, Padraig O Connor etc to that list as non executive directors per say.

What does "per say" mean?

They would have been well known "donors" of Bertie but wouldn't be fully fledged members of the Mafia. Mind you the Mafia was so big at the end it was hard to tell the difference.

I know all that. I just wanted to know what "per say" means.

[Bogball XV]

Peelo was Bertie's Accountant - not a paid up member .  He represented both Ahern and Haughey at the bloody Tribunals.

You dont seem to see the paltry appointments to the semi states was the issue. When you talk about the scale of corruption and the millions he made. This is how he did it. By appointing all his mates to the boards he controlled all of them. This allowed him to rezone sites and lands that many of these Semi States owned.

By appointing his trusted lieutenants to the most powerful companies in Ireland. This is how he got to be best mates with all the Developers. He came into contact with all of them. One of the Mafia would make sure he was introduced to one of them. Bertie would look after things. And they looked after him financially for doing so. Sean Dunne, Ronan etc are all mates of his.

Bertie is a multi milionaire. Recently in a raffle in the Beaumont House about 6 months ago there was a 10k prize. Guess who won first prize. Yep you got it Bertie.

There is no justice in the world.

beresford is a 4 bed modern detached house off griffith avenue, hardly a mansion.

Not that it really matters, but just because Peelo represented Ahern doesn't mean that he was in the mafia, Peelo is one of very few forensic accountants in this country (before the big 4 started attempting to get in on the market a few years ago - and there's no way they'd have touched ahern once they heard his explanations) he was always going to be one of the few people capable of constructing some sort of defence for both Ahern and Haughey.

Given Bertie's lack of tax returns prior to 2007, he clearly did not retain any accountant personally.

I understand your point about his lieutenants on semi states,  but i don't agree that they had any real control.  Take Chris Wall at Aer Lingus or Joe Burke at the Dublin Port, what influence did those guys really have?

Bertie lives in a de-thatched 6 bed house.  Beresford has a section called millionaire row- locally called. He lives there. Do you want to take a picture of it? .

You dont need tax returns when you're Taoiseach. How naive are you? I mean seriously you're using the lack of a tax return as evidence of Bertie being financially compliant? This is the man who spent a decade passing himself off as a qualified accountant. Peelo would do whatever Bertie wanted him to do. As I said peelo was appointed to plenty of boards because of it. The CRC and others to name just one.

Chris Wall was a director at Aer Lingus for 11 years. Nothing happened on that board that wasnt reported back to Bertie. To indicate Wall's power- he was the only director to survive the privatisation clearout in 2006. He only left in 2008 of his own volition. Wall was even a senator - again appointed by Ahern. Again Ahern controlled Aer Lingus through him. Just ask people if you dont believe me.

Burke was chairman of Dublin Port - how is that not influential? Lets not forget he only left in 2009.

Ironic thats its taken so long for people to start writing books on this. It went on for 20 years virtually un-noticed. Ross has a good book on it at the moment called Wasters- not specifically about Bertie but it shows how the system works.

Bertie bought the property as a 4 bedroom detached house in 1997 from Michael Wall, if he subsequently extended or renovated it to a six bedroom house, well and good, but I doubt that is the case.  It was a very ordinary suburban house, gardens were measured in square footage and not acres, the house itself was less than 2000sq foot with little room to extend, if you think that's a mansion, you're too long in Dublin.

I'm not sure what exactly you're saying with regards to ahern's tax compliance, but you seem to have totally misinterpreted me again, I have never said he was or is compliant, I just said he obviously didn't have an accountant.  I've said time and again that he should be treated the same as Rambo and jailed for tax evasion.

Why would the Taoiseach of the country need a spy on the board of aer lingus?  He should have been privy to everything going on there regardless of who was or is on the board.  It was owned by the state and is still almost 50% owned by the state.  Wall obviously survived the cull as he was the taoiseach's mate – hardly a mystery.  Wall was a senator for approx 1 month, that was enough to guarantee him free parking in the dail and access to the bars for life – no other discernible benefits.

Burke may have been chairman, but a man of your business experience should know how titular such a position can be.

[INDIANA]

Peelo was Bertie's Accountant - not a paid up member .  He represented both Ahern and Haughey at the bloody Tribunals.

You dont seem to see the paltry appointments to the semi states was the issue. When you talk about the scale of corruption and the millions he made. This is how he did it. By appointing all his mates to the boards he controlled all of them. This allowed him to rezone sites and lands that many of these Semi States owned.

By appointing his trusted lieutenants to the most powerful companies in Ireland. This is how he got to be best mates with all the Developers. He came into contact with all of them. One of the Mafia would make sure he was introduced to one of them. Bertie would look after things. And they looked after him financially for doing so. Sean Dunne, Ronan etc are all mates of his.

Bertie is a multi milionaire. Recently in a raffle in the Beaumont House about 6 months ago there was a 10k prize. Guess who won first prize. Yep you got it Bertie.

There is no justice in the world.

beresford is a 4 bed modern detached house off griffith avenue, hardly a mansion.

Not that it really matters, but just because Peelo represented Ahern doesn't mean that he was in the mafia, Peelo is one of very few forensic accountants in this country (before the big 4 started attempting to get in on the market a few years ago - and there's no way they'd have touched ahern once they heard his explanations) he was always going to be one of the few people capable of constructing some sort of defence for both Ahern and Haughey.

Given Bertie's lack of tax returns prior to 2007, he clearly did not retain any accountant personally.

I understand your point about his lieutenants on semi states,  but i don't agree that they had any real control.  Take Chris Wall at Aer Lingus or Joe Burke at the Dublin Port, what influence did those guys really have?

Bertie lives in a de-thatched 6 bed house.  Beresford has a section called millionaire row- locally called. He lives there. Do you want to take a picture of it? .

You dont need tax returns when you're Taoiseach. How naive are you? I mean seriously you're using the lack of a tax return as evidence of Bertie being financially compliant? This is the man who spent a decade passing himself off as a qualified accountant. Peelo would do whatever Bertie wanted him to do. As I said peelo was appointed to plenty of boards because of it. The CRC and others to name just one.

Chris Wall was a director at Aer Lingus for 11 years. Nothing happened on that board that wasnt reported back to Bertie. To indicate Wall's power- he was the only director to survive the privatisation clearout in 2006. He only left in 2008 of his own volition. Wall was even a senator - again appointed by Ahern. Again Ahern controlled Aer Lingus through him. Just ask people if you dont believe me.

Burke was chairman of Dublin Port - how is that not influential? Lets not forget he only left in 2009.

Ironic thats its taken so long for people to start writing books on this. It went on for 20 years virtually un-noticed. Ross has a good book on it at the moment called Wasters- not specifically about Bertie but it shows how the system works.

Bertie bought the property as a 4 bedroom detached house in 1997 from Michael Wall, if he subsequently extended or renovated it to a six bedroom house, well and good, but I doubt that is the case.  It was a very ordinary suburban house, gardens were measured in square footage and not acres, the house itself was less than 2000sq foot with little room to extend, if you think that's a mansion, you're too long in Dublin.

I'm not sure what exactly you're saying with regards to ahern's tax compliance, but you seem to have totally misinterpreted me again, I have never said he was or is compliant, I just said he obviously didn't have an accountant.  I've said time and again that he should be treated the same as Rambo and jailed for tax evasion.

Why would the Taoiseach of the country need a spy on the board of aer lingus?  He should have been privy to everything going on there regardless of who was or is on the board.  It was owned by the state and is still almost 50% owned by the state.  Wall obviously survived the cull as he was the taoiseach's mate – hardly a mystery.  Wall was a senator for approx 1 month, that was enough to guarantee him free parking in the dail and access to the bars for life – no other discernible benefits.

Burke may have been chairman, but a man of your business experience should know how titular such a position can be.

I live less then a kilometre away and I know exactly what it looks like- and what it looks like inside. And its a serious house. As the possessions inside will testify.

He does have an accountant as I explained earlier. He pretends to the public he doesnt- there is a clear distinction. You believe too much in poor Bertie the public gobshite as he likes to portray himself.

You're completely missing the point again. It was the Mafia who introduced Bertie to the developers. I cant explain it any clearer then that.

Appointing his own people to the semi states gave him control over the unions electorally and financially got him connected with major businessmen and developers. It was carefully planned and it paid off- literally.He knew exactly what he was doing.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Ironic thats its taken so long for people to start writing books on this.

It's taken so long because of the libel laws, which favour establishment power over freedom of speech, and because the media is so very small in this country. If someone wants to get up and cause a stir, it's easy enough to isolate him or her and starve him out.

The country's rotten boys. All the next election will do is switch people in deckchairs. The system will remain the same unless we vote for politicians who want reform (and who can do sums, thus ruling out Joe Higgins and that crew). I won't be holding my breath. Too many people whom the system suits, too many people who can't see they're getting nailed by the system.

[lawnseed]

attention neighbours of bogball and indiana! keep your curtains closed these guys miss nothing

[Big Puff]

I wonder does he eat his breakfast out of the bertie bowl.

[Bogball XV]

I wonder does he eat his breakfast out of the bertie bowl.

by the look of him over the past while he drinks it!!

In truth, Indiana told me has the full 32 county selection of those kellogs county bowls so that he can always have the right one out depending on who is overnighting with him (i'm not sure if he collected all the tokens himself or whether the story that he lightened regulations on labelling re sodium and sugar content on breakfast cereals in exchange for the complete collection is correct).  When he's on his own though, it's a Man Utd bowl.

[thebigfella]

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Which people are you referring to?

Most of the so called political pundits on this board for a start.

Very nice of you to answer a question not addressed to you, but while your at it can you name and shame these people.

Well sure you can go top of the name and shame list then 

[stephenite]

Haughey had a mansion in Kinsealy, anything on Griffith Ave is nowhere near the same league.

That said, I'd say he's got millions of ill gotten gains

[mylestheslasher]

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Which people are you referring to?

Most of the so called political pundits on this board for a start.

Very nice of you to answer a question not addressed to you, but while your at it can you name and shame these people.

Well sure you can go top of the name and shame list then 

I asked the question because of idiots like you generalising about ahern. Apparently there would be no deal in the north without him - rubbish. Apparently we (or youse) were happy with him when we were off buying foreign property - out of all the people I know only 1 bought property abroad and he got badly burnt. I made my mind up about this joke called the Celtic tiger years ago when I saw estates spring up in every field in cavan town while the only new people in the town were the people building them. I have never voted ff and if you can find one post anywhere where I say something good about ahern well please post it here and expose me as a liar.

[INDIANA]

Haughey had a mansion in Kinsealy, anything on Griffith Ave is nowhere near the same league.

That said, I'd say he's got millions of ill gotten gains

True but Haughey bought the place for about 10k in 1969 as you could back then.

Apparently Bertie today reveals he should have acted sooner. I mean you couldn't make it up.

Himself and Fitzpatrick should be put in stocks in O Connell Street.  But then again Bogball and his nanny state mates would probably take the hit for him. Thats Ireland for you .

[Lar Naparka]

se afaik most of the inner circle were part of the fabricated dig-out stories etc.  For all that, the few quid here and there was the least of his wrongdoings, I don't believe he profited to the extent that the people he helped out did, i'm talking about the developers and other who had tax laws amended in their favour.
He had some qualities, but a genius he was not and I have no idea why anyone would or could describe him as such.

Not from me, I remember being accused of being blinded by my disgust of the man back 3 or 4 years ago, that I had some decent points to make, but that everthing I wrote had to be looked at in that context (I think it was bellequa or someone who pointed that out to me).

I don't even blame Ahern tbh, he just gave people what they wanted, he didn't have the intellect to understand how unsustainable that was.  Other people should have been shouting stop.
That said, he was very good at what he did in terms of coming across as personable and achieving electoral success, the deal with the greens being his most impressive achievement imo. 

Re the north, I think it was going to happen regardless of him, there was no appetite for a continuation on any side and the wheels were long in motion before he was in power.

Probably know most of them. Certainly all who were associated with him up to the '97 election.
I lived off Hollybank Road in Glasnevin for several years and frequented both Kennedy's and Fagan's so I had ample opportunity to meet and mingle with Bertie and his buddies.
There were a number I didn't get on very well with and I guess the feeling was mutual. I get on very well with 4 or 5 of those closely associated with Ahern and when circumstances allow, I could meet one or other of them and stop for a chat or sit on an adjacent bar stool for a couple of pints From what those contacts tell me and from what I already knew, I'm certain that no single person knew the full extent of Bertie's off-the-ball activities. And no one ever will.
Nowadays, I don't go out of my way to seek out any of them but such meetings do happen on occasion and the subject of Bertie's latest misdemeanours may crop up in a general way but it seldom dominates the chat.

Was he a genius? Of course he was and still probably is!
You need look no further than Charlie Haughey's assessment of his abilities to find proof of this. "He's the man. He's the best, the most skilful, the most devious, and the most cunning of them all."

Remember the time he went down to Roscommon to attend some function or other and found a crowd of angry farmers out in force, waving placards and protesting at some cutbacks in their income? I forget the specific details but I don't forget the pictures of Bertie in amongst them that were carried by the national media the following day.
Adults who had gone onto the streets to protest at his government's actions were shaking his hand and seeking his autograph; they damn near chaired him around the local pitch for a lap of honour or two. I can't think of any other public figure that has the cojones to pull off a stroke like that. Can you?

I'm not saying that I admire Bertie Ahern but I'd use a long spoon if I ever sit down to supper with him. There's a lot more to the man than his pretty face.
Now, I most certainly will not vote for him if he stands in the Presidential Election or any other electoral contest either.   
But it would be churlish to deny him the credit due for his part in the Peace Process negotiations. IMO, it's pointless speculating that someone else might have had the same success. The fact is that Ahern won the trust of Big Ian and the Shinners and brought them together-something that no one else had been able to do after 40 years of trying.
For me, his undoubted positive achievements only serve to highlight his financial peccadilloes. I hope the Mahon Tribunal will finish its investigations, sooner rather than later, and come up with a credible verdict. Let justice be done and seen to be done is all I can say.