Bertie Ahern - retires

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Perhaps, but he told those who were critical of both him and where he was taking the state at the height of the 'Tiger' that they could go hang themselves.

[INDIANA]

Not a Ahern fan for aforementioned reasons, but had John Bruton continued in office instead of Ahern the peace process might never have taken off. A self serving cnut? Probably, but IMO he deserves the legacy of having facilitated the entry of militant Republicanism to the democratic process and his role in doing so was crucial

He deserves the legacy of being the biggest thief this country has ever known. Any other country and he'd never leave a jail-cell. I hope he rots in hell.

[thebigfella]

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Which people are you referring to?

Most of the so called political pundits on this board for a start.

[mylestheslasher]

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Which people are you referring to?

Most of the so called political pundits on this board for a start.

Very nice of you to answer a question not addressed to you, but while your at it can you name and shame these people.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Which people are you referring to?

Most of the so called political pundits on this board for a start.

Very nice of you to answer a question not addressed to you, but while your at it can you name and shame these people.

There was quite a few of us critical of him for a very long time. But I will agree that there was an incredible amount of people who seemed to ignore his obvious accounting issues  amongs other things. I had a friend from Dublin (but to be honest they could have been from anywhere, but especially the Dublin & its commuter belt) who told me before the last election that he would take his chances with a corrupt Fianna Fail that he knew wouldn't rock the boat rather than an honest Fine Gael or Labour who might.

[lawnseed]

Bertie Ahern is a True Enemy of Ireland.

Bertie Ahern is, was and always will be a C.U.N.T. thats the start and finish of it, argument over.

what a great start to 2011 teflon fecks off and i finally agree with MGHU. 

[midLouth]

Not a Ahern fan for aforementioned reasons, but had John Bruton continued in office instead of Ahern the peace process might never have taken off. A self serving cnut? Probably, but IMO he deserves the legacy of having facilitated the entry of militant Republicanism to the democratic process and his role in doing so was crucial

He deserves the legacy of being the biggest thief this country has ever known. Any other country and he'd never leave a jail-cell. I hope he rots in hell.

You capture my thoughts exactly!

[Bogball XV]

He was/is a genius without a doubt.I know a number of the so-called Drumcondra Mafia and I'm quite satisfied that no one in his inner circle of friends knew the full extent of his financial irregularities. It was a terrible letdown for all who knew him to hear him assure the Mahon Tribunal that he had hit it lucky with the horses.

Which members of the mafia do you know?  I only ask because afaik most of the inner circle were part of the fabricated dig-out stories etc.  For all that, the few quid here and there was the least of his wrongdoings, I don't believe he profited to the extent that the people he helped out did, i'm talking about the developers and other who had tax laws amended in their favour.
He had some qualities, but a genius he was not and I have no idea why anyone would or could describe him as such.

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Not from me, I remember being accused of being blinded by my disgust of the man back 3 or 4 years ago, that I had some decent points to make, but that everthing I wrote had to be looked at in that context (I think it was bellequa or someone who pointed that out to me).

I don't even blame Ahern tbh, he just gave people what they wanted, he didn't have the intellect to understand how unsustainable that was.  Other people should have been shouting stop.
That said, he was very good at what he did in terms of coming across as personable and achieving electoral success, the deal with the greens being his most impressive achievement imo. 

Re the north, I think it was going to happen regardless of him, there was no appetite for a continuation on any side and the wheels were long in motion before he was in power.

[INDIANA]

He was/is a genius without a doubt.I know a number of the so-called Drumcondra Mafia and I'm quite satisfied that no one in his inner circle of friends knew the full extent of his financial irregularities. It was a terrible letdown for all who knew him to hear him assure the Mahon Tribunal that he had hit it lucky with the horses.

Which members of the mafia do you know?  I only ask because afaik most of the inner circle were part of the fabricated dig-out stories etc.  For all that, the few quid here and there was the least of his wrongdoings, I don't believe he profited to the extent that the people he helped out did, i'm talking about the developers and other who had tax laws amended in their favour.
He had some qualities, but a genius he was not and I have no idea why anyone would or could describe him as such.

There is a lot of people here who are wise after the event. The critizism was very muted when the mythical celtic tiger was roaring

Not from me, I remember being accused of being blinded by my disgust of the man back 3 or 4 years ago, that I had some decent points to make, but that everthing I wrote had to be looked at in that context (I think it was bellequa or someone who pointed that out to me).

I don't even blame Ahern tbh, he just gave people what they wanted, he didn't have the intellect to understand how unsustainable that was.  Other people should have been shouting stop.
That said, he was very good at what he did in terms of coming across as personable and achieving electoral success, the deal with the greens being his most impressive achievement imo. 

Re the north, I think it was going to happen regardless of him, there was no appetite for a continuation on any side and the wheels were long in motion before he was in power.

Bogball I lived in Drumcondra for 25 years All those stories about the Drumcondra Mafia are true. Dont start talking about subjects you havent the foggiest of what you are talking about. Let me educate you.

The Mafia:

-Des Richardson
-Chris Wall
-Joe Burke
-Paul Kiely
-Tony Kett
-Des Peelo
-James Nugent

You add Charlie Chawke, Padraig O Connor etc to that list as non executive directors per say. All of the above were elected to prime directoral positions in Ireland semi-States under Ahern's watch as compensation for helping him get re-elected. Either canvassing or financially. I've seen the clandestine meetings in Fagans, the Goose and the Beaumont House as many have. I doubt you'd know where they are on the map.

You think he added the above to the boards of semi states for old times sake. You just keep believing that. The rest of us know the truth. The scale of corruption in this particular case will never come to light because Ahern will always have the trade unions, the quangos, the semi states, senators etc in his back pocket. Anyone that could expose him wont. Because he made sure of it.

He is a multi milllionaire and make no mistake about it. Anyone who believes otherwise is a gobshite. He lives in a mansion, has a state car, 2 bodyguards and thousands of irish punts(lets not forget) that he hides under floorboards. It makes me sick reading posts ,iek the above still making excuses for a guy who lied, cheated and stole from the Irish people and the fact that people still excuse it.


I could write a post 10 pages long about the Mafia and Ahern as could many residents of Drumcondra. It was never a secret how it worked. The only surprise is some clowns still believe in Bertie. Its posts like the above that make me realise maybe we deserve everything we got.

[Bogball XV]

. Its posts like the above that make me realise maybe we deserve everything we got.

I think you should read my post again too, there wasn't a lot there that disagreed with anything you say.

When I said he didn't make the same sort of money that the people he facilitated did?  I stand by that, if he has money it's offshore and not easily accessible for him, thus pointless unless he moves out of ireland.  Back in the 70's the ansbacher scheme was set up to enable people to access their offshore monies, but that ship has sailed and it's more difficult nowadays.
You're talking about the paltry few quid for appointments to quangos, the expenses, the parking in the dail, the free aer lingus flights for life etc, I'm referring to the billions made by the developers through rezoning, the billions saved through the retention of ridiculous tax incentives, the millions saved through changes in tax law to facilitate one person.
As for the mansion he lives in, has he moved out of Beresford? 

By the way, I don't think that Peelo or O'Connor were fully paid up members and there's a few who've been left out: Celia, Gerry Brennan, Jerry Beades, Cyprian are prominent ommissons. 

[INDIANA]

Has he moved out of Beresford? Why would he- its his bloody house. Electric Fences, squad car outside etc- the usual ensemble that represents Irelands destitute public servants. Not to mention all the other properties that nobody talks about. (why)

Celia Ahern and Co were absolute small timers. The Mafia hated Celia Ahern and thats a fact.

Peelo was Bertie's Accountant - not a paid up member .  He represented both Ahern and Haughey at the bloody Tribunals.

You dont seem to see the paltry appointments to the semi states was the issue. When you talk about the scale of corruption and the millions he made. This is how he did it. By appointing all his mates to the boards he controlled all of them. This allowed him to rezone sites and lands that many of these Semi States owned.

By appointing his trusted lieutenants to the most powerful companies in Ireland. This is how he got to be best mates with all the Developers. He came into contact with all of them. One of the Mafia would make sure he was introduced to one of them. Bertie would look after things. And they looked after him financially for doing so. Sean Dunne, Ronan etc are all mates of his.

Bertie is a multi milionaire. Recently in a raffle in the Beaumont House about 6 months ago there was a 10k prize. Guess who won first prize. Yep you got it Bertie.

There is no justice in the world.

[Hardy]

You add Charlie Chawke, Padraig O Connor etc to that list as non executive directors per say.

What does "per say" mean?

[INDIANA]

You add Charlie Chawke, Padraig O Connor etc to that list as non executive directors per say.

What does "per say" mean?

They would have been well known "donors" of Bertie but wouldn't be fully fledged members of the Mafia. Mind you the Mafia was so big at the end it was hard to tell the difference.

[Bogball XV]

Peelo was Bertie's Accountant - not a paid up member .  He represented both Ahern and Haughey at the bloody Tribunals.

You dont seem to see the paltry appointments to the semi states was the issue. When you talk about the scale of corruption and the millions he made. This is how he did it. By appointing all his mates to the boards he controlled all of them. This allowed him to rezone sites and lands that many of these Semi States owned.

By appointing his trusted lieutenants to the most powerful companies in Ireland. This is how he got to be best mates with all the Developers. He came into contact with all of them. One of the Mafia would make sure he was introduced to one of them. Bertie would look after things. And they looked after him financially for doing so. Sean Dunne, Ronan etc are all mates of his.

Bertie is a multi milionaire. Recently in a raffle in the Beaumont House about 6 months ago there was a 10k prize. Guess who won first prize. Yep you got it Bertie.

There is no justice in the world.

beresford is a 4 bed modern detached house off griffith avenue, hardly a mansion.

Not that it really matters, but just because Peelo represented Ahern doesn't mean that he was in the mafia, Peelo is one of very few forensic accountants in this country (before the big 4 started attempting to get in on the market a few years ago - and there's no way they'd have touched ahern once they heard his explanations) he was always going to be one of the few people capable of constructing some sort of defence for both Ahern and Haughey.

Given Bertie's lack of tax returns prior to 2007, he clearly did not retain any accountant personally.

I understand your point about his lieutenants on semi states,  but i don't agree that they had any real control.  Take Chris Wall at Aer Lingus or Joe Burke at the Dublin Port, what influence did those guys really have?

[Bogball XV]

Has he moved out of Beresford? Why would he- its his bloody house. Electric Fences, squad car outside etc- the usual ensemble that represents Irelands destitute public servants. Not to mention all the other properties that nobody talks about. (why)

Now that would be interesting, do share.