Three Cheers for Pearse Doherty TD

[mylestheslasher]

But the Country will still be left with the same problems, with no new thinking being brought too bear

The people who would be elected would at least have a mandate from the people to rule and sort out the mess we are in. We are in the shit but the 1st thing we must do is make sure the people that got us in the shit are not the ones we trust to get us out of it.

[mylestheslasher]

So the news is this -

The government are to appeal the ruling to the supreme court (amazing how they can have time and money to do this but no time and money to just have the bye elections!!!)

The Donegal bye election will go ahead this month but not the others.

[Pangurban]

I hate to point this out but the current lot also have a mandate. Are is one mandate less valid less valid than another

[mylestheslasher]

I hate to point this out but the current lot also have a mandate. Are is one mandate less valid less valid than another

I don't think they even believe that, an awful awful lot has changed since then. If they truly believe they have a mandate why not ask the people to repeat it?

[Pangurban]

Turkeys dont vote for Christmas, they will cling on until it becomes impossible, and given the weakness of the opposition that could be quite a while, not that it matters as the answers the country needs will not be found in the Dail

[Pangurban]

Much as you may like to believe this nonsense, it is simply not true. FF submitted themselves to the electorate, obtained a sufficient majority to negotiate a coalition deal, and as long as they maintain a majority in the Dail, they are entitled to govern. Your point about By-elections has some small validity, but all governments of whatever hue manipulate the timing of by-elections, there is nothing illegal about it.  My main contention is that a change of government will not make one whit of difference to people who are suffering. In my view the Dail is now a total irrelevance, as it is no longer capable of defending our economic sovereignty, our representing the will of the people

[norabeag]

There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help

That is the frightenig thing. On one hand a corrupt inept administration, bolstered by a shallow coalition partner, while on the other side one of the weakest oppostions in terms of leadership, passion, vision.
The future does seem extremely bleak without some major social upheaval, or a complete revamp of the political map in the 26 counties

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I hate to point this out but the current lot also have a mandate. Are is one mandate less valid less valid than another

I have long declared my colours but you are just hiding behind your Dev-Charlie-Bertie-DirtyApron.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help

The point and the result of all this is that FF are undemocratic. They are denying the Irish people the right to democracy. How is that point lost on you. Wehter FG or LB would do the same economically is niether here nor there is this debate. FF are using State money to deny us democracy. FF are dictiators and do not have a mandate. There is no mandate to postpone by elections in order to maintain a grip on power and this has been found in court today. If this was happening in Africa there would be uproar.

Fianna Fail have never belived in the democratic will of the people, an evil and avoidable Civil War proves this.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help

That is the frightenig thing. On one hand a corrupt inept administration, bolstered by a shallow coalition partner, while on the other side one of the weakest oppostions in terms of leadership, passion, vision.
The future does seem extremely bleak without some major social upheaval, or a complete revamp of the political map in the 26 counties

Panguran is a Soldier without Destiny he constantly waits to ambush me at every opportunity purely on my political beliefs.

[Lone Shark]

I know I should just accept it, but I cannot just let these comments slide about how the opposition is just as bad, such as these.

There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help

That is the frightenig thing. On one hand a corrupt inept administration, bolstered by a shallow coalition partner, while on the other side one of the weakest oppostions in terms of leadership, passion, vision.
The future does seem extremely bleak without some major social upheaval, or a complete revamp of the political map in the 26 counties

Governing and opposing are two completely different beasts. Anyone who believes that any politician, in this day and age, would do exactly what they say, is naive to the point that their vote should be confiscated. Politicians with a microphone in front of them will denounce every cutback, advocated unconstitutional and illegal behaviour if they thought it would win votes, fight for their back yard and then at the end of it all, trudge through the voting lobbies exactly as their chief whop tells them to do.

If FF did what they said, we wouldn't be in as much trouble as we are now. FF said that the banks were sound. FF said that we have turned the corner - several times. FF said that they would be done cutting after the first few bad budgets. The point is that none of this could be believed - so all you can do is judge people on their actions. And FF's actions have been dangerous, unethical, immoral and I believe, treasonous.

The problem in Ireland, and I know this because I used to have this same nagging feeling myself coming from a FF family, we don't vote for  them like a political party, we follow them like a football team. We forgive their weaknesses and look to justify their wrongdoing, because it's ingrained in us never to change sides. Be it a GAA thing or whatever, people who change their vote are considered odd in this country.

Right now you have all these people who are conditioned to voting for FF, but who can't rationalise it, so you get this idea permeating the national consciousness of "they're all just as bad".

For God's sake, we've all played football or hurling at some stage - some of us good, some of us not so. But if you've ever been in the situation of feeling you're doing okay, you're doing all the right things, while the guy who's playing ahead of you in your chosen position is an almighty feckup, probably the worst player in the province. (Not unreasonable to say that we have thee worst government in Europe right now). Now imagine the manager turns to you, not after he makes a bollix of one game, but after he's been making a solid bollix of it for every game since you came out of minor - and then he tells you "he's useless but shur you're just as bad". Would you say stupid things in that instance? I know I would.   

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help

The point and the result of all this is that FF are undemocratic. They are denying the Irish people the right to democracy. How is that point lost on you. Wehter FG or LB would do the same economically is niether here nor there is this debate. FF are using State money to deny us democracy. FF are dictiators and do not have a mandate. There is no mandate to postpone by elections in order to maintain a grip on power and this has been found in court today. If this was happening in Africa there would be uproar.

Fianna Fail have never belived in the democratic will of the people, an evil and avoidable Civil War proves this.

How in the name of God does something that happened in the 1920s prove a single thing about the characteristics and behaviour of Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan, Mary Hannafin et al.

[Banana Man]

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on Today at 05:16:53 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2010, 11:09:58 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on November 03, 2010, 08:34:40 PM
There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help


The point and the result of all this is that FF are undemocratic. They are denying the Irish people the right to democracy. How is that point lost on you. Wehter FG or LB would do the same economically is niether here nor there is this debate. FF are using State money to deny us democracy. FF are dictiators and do not have a mandate. There is no mandate to postpone by elections in order to maintain a grip on power and this has been found in court today. If this was happening in Africa there would be uproar.


Fianna Fail have never belived in the democratic will of the people, an evil and avoidable Civil War proves this.


How in the name of God does something that happened in the 1920s prove a single thing about the characteristics and behaviour of Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan, Mary Hannafin et al.

Plus FG didn't worry too much about the democratic will of the Catholic North if you want to talk about that but why go back to the 1920's.

Let's look at the debate in context of the current 21st century parameters. The fact is the bully boys in FF who say there is no money and are proposing cuts of €6bn today think it is cost effective to take the people's money and head to court to stop a fundamental cornerstone of democracy. It is absolutley outrageous.

As for Turkeys voting for Christmas, tough, that is the essence of democracy, you put yurself up in front of the people for the equivalent of an annual review, I could see Obama turning roun and saying ''ya know what i don't think we should have those mid terms, i won't get the result i want and if anyone argues we will go to court and drag it out''

it's dictatorship, plain and simple.

[Nally Stand]

There is a growing concensus   that this awful,corrupt government must be got out. But then what. Elect a coalition of the incompetent FG and Lab., who have already committed themselves to following the path as the current lot. How would that help

The point and the result of all this is that FF are undemocratic. They are denying the Irish people the right to democracy. How is that point lost on you. Wehter FG or LB would do the same economically is niether here nor there is this debate. FF are using State money to deny us democracy. FF are dictiators and do not have a mandate. There is no mandate to postpone by elections in order to maintain a grip on power and this has been found in court today. If this was happening in Africa there would be uproar.

Fianna Fail have never belived in the democratic will of the people, an evil and avoidable Civil War proves this.

How in the name of God does something that happened in the 1920s prove a single thing about the characteristics and behaviour of Brian Cowen, Brian Lenihan, Mary Hannafin et al.

Couldn't agree more. Mayo, the Civil War was as much about one side as the other and besides, isn't it about time the obsession was dropped with it. Jaysus as far as I'm concerned, neither FF nor FG truely give a flying fcuk about partition anyway and least of all, FG.

[muppet]

Much as you may like to believe this nonsense, it is simply not true. FF submitted themselves to the electorate, obtained a sufficient majority to negotiate a coalition deal, and as long as they maintain a majority in the Dail, they are entitled to govern. Your point about By-elections has some small validity, but all governments of whatever hue manipulate the timing of by-elections, there is nothing illegal about it.  My main contention is that a change of government will not make one whit of difference to people who are suffering. In my view the Dail is now a total irrelevance, as it is no longer capable of defending our economic sovereignty, our representing the will of the people

Either FF have a democratic mandate to govern (and that means they should hold the by-elections) and they must accept complete responsibility for everything that happened on their watch;

OR

you can blame the opposition;

But you can't argue it both ways.