Banty - Should I stay or Should I go?

[Maguire01]

Two monaghan  players fluffed 1 on 1 chances....Were they feeling the pressure the manager should have tried to alleviate a bit more? Did the manager not have them practicing goal chances enough? Perhaps you can blame Banty. Personally I wouldnt, but to suggest that the players all just had a bad day, which was awfully unlucky considering that day was the day of the Ulster final, is a little ungracious.

No, I definitely wouldn't blame banty for the missed goal chances - I've said as much. And I don't think all 15 players had a bad day, but when some of the key players fail to perform the whole team looks bad.

[INDIANA]

Also...

I don't think Banty is the man to do it. If i'm wrong fine. But there is little evidence of managers who haven't won a provinical championhip recently staying for 6 years. perhaps you could detail a few?

I can't name any. In fact I think that Banty is the second longest serving manager in the country. But there are plenty of teams who have changed their management in the belief that a new man would deliver the goods. I can think of Derry and Donegal off the top of my head. It didn't work. That's my point.

I didn't say he hasn't done a good job. But I don't think you're a better team then 3 year ago. Every manager has a time limit. For example Mickey Ned has stepped down after 5 years. There is nobody in Limerick better qualified.
Banty has  done  a very good job. But you can't keep going with the same bunch of players without tangible reward.

[haranguerer]

Two monaghan  players fluffed 1 on 1 chances....Were they feeling the pressure the manager should have tried to alleviate a bit more? Did the manager not have them practicing goal chances enough? Perhaps you can blame Banty. Personally I wouldnt, but to suggest that the players all just had a bad day, which was awfully unlucky considering that day was the day of the Ulster final, is a little ungracious.

No, I definitely wouldn't blame banty for the missed goal chances - I've said as much. And I don't think all 15 players had a bad day, but when some of the key players fail to perform the whole team looks bad.

None of which explains why you feel Monaghan 'probably should have won an Ulster...' this year  It insinuates that Tyrone caught them on the hop or something, which is ridiculous.

If Monaghan had played their very best, and Tyrone also had, Tyrones winning margin wouldn't have been that much less. Your statement is completely unjustified.

[haranguerer]

So you think that...

Monaghan require at least 7 better starters then they currently have to win silverware.

...but you also say...

I don't think Banty is the man to do it.

So tell me, where is any new manager going to find 7 better players in Monaghan?

Just to point out - a new manager would at least have a look.

[Cde]

Banty should move on. He has taken that Monaghan team as far as he can.
Their best chance to win an Ulster was probably 07.
Banty says himself that he needs 5 new players to come into the team. Is there 5 better players in Monaghan than is on the team now. 
Banty has taken that team a long way but maybe like Tyrone with Art McRory they need somebody that can take them over the line although I think it doesnt matter who the manager is there is not much more in that Monaghan team

[Maguire01]

Also...

I don't think Banty is the man to do it. If i'm wrong fine. But there is little evidence of managers who haven't won a provinical championhip recently staying for 6 years. perhaps you could detail a few?

I can't name any. In fact I think that Banty is the second longest serving manager in the country. But there are plenty of teams who have changed their management in the belief that a new man would deliver the goods. I can think of Derry and Donegal off the top of my head. It didn't work. That's my point.

I didn't say he hasn't done a good job. But I don't think you're a better team then 3 year ago. Every manager has a time limit. For example Mickey Ned has stepped down after 5 years. There is nobody in Limerick better qualified.
Banty has  done  a very good job. But you can't keep going with the same bunch of players without tangible reward.

So do you think Limerick will be better served by losing Mickey Ned? Unlikely i'd think.

And personally, I think Monaghan are a better team than 3 years ago.

[Maguire01]

So you think that...

Monaghan require at least 7 better starters then they currently have to win silverware.

...but you also say...

I don't think Banty is the man to do it.

So tell me, where is any new manager going to find 7 better players in Monaghan?

Just to point out - a new manager would at least have a look.

So you're suggesting that Banty either ignores better players or doesn't look at any other players in the county? You can't say he hasn't brought in new players during his time.

Maybe some new manager would bring in a few new players. Would those players make the difference? Hard to tell.

[INDIANA]

Also...

I don't think Banty is the man to do it. If i'm wrong fine. But there is little evidence of managers who haven't won a provinical championhip recently staying for 6 years. perhaps you could detail a few?

I can't name any. In fact I think that Banty is the second longest serving manager in the country. But there are plenty of teams who have changed their management in the belief that a new man would deliver the goods. I can think of Derry and Donegal off the top of my head. It didn't work. That's my point.

I didn't say he hasn't done a good job. But I don't think you're a better team then 3 year ago. Every manager has a time limit. For example Mickey Ned has stepped down after 5 years. There is nobody in Limerick better qualified.
Banty has  done  a very good job. But you can't keep going with the same bunch of players without tangible reward.

So do you think Limerick will be better served by losing Mickey Ned? Unlikely i'd think.

And personally, I think Monaghan are a better team than 3 years ago.

Well we beg to differ then. Limerick needed a new voice and Mickey Ned knew it.

[Maguire01]

Two monaghan  players fluffed 1 on 1 chances....Were they feeling the pressure the manager should have tried to alleviate a bit more? Did the manager not have them practicing goal chances enough? Perhaps you can blame Banty. Personally I wouldnt, but to suggest that the players all just had a bad day, which was awfully unlucky considering that day was the day of the Ulster final, is a little ungracious.

No, I definitely wouldn't blame banty for the missed goal chances - I've said as much. And I don't think all 15 players had a bad day, but when some of the key players fail to perform the whole team looks bad.

None of which explains why you feel Monaghan 'probably should have won an Ulster...' this year  It insinuates that Tyrone caught them on the hop or something, which is ridiculous.

If Monaghan had played their very best, and Tyrone also had, Tyrones winning margin wouldn't have been that much less. Your statement is completely unjustified.

We're not going to agree on this. You referred to Monaghan as "the real deal" after the Fermanagh match, if i'm not mistaken. Plenty of people thought Monaghan had a very good chance of lifting Ulster this year - I wasn't alone. It didn't happen. But I can't remember Monaghan ever playing as bad as they did against Tyrone in the Ulster final. And if Monaghan had played to their potential, there's no way Tyrone would have won by a similar margin.

My statement is unjustified? It's my opinion. It's subjective.

[The Konica]

Met a well known Monaghan GAA stalwart at the game in Croker and got chatting about the situation in his county and about Ulster football in general and all the management changes. Some very funny stories too about football over the years also. He said a number of things that I must say surprised me, but largely that the main concern within the county (and I guess the County Board) was the money being spent on the team and basically the large amounts being spent on the backroom team and money basically leaving the county which he made the point isn't the wealthiest county in the country (while some players were even out of work)? Most people don't think they're getting value for money.
He also said that only a very small group of players were even made aware of the 'statement' meeting or that it wasn't as unanimous as people think and there was still a fallout after the dropping or non-selection of that goalkeeper?
There were huge doubts over the Grimley factor too - poor return for the investment, other things were the fact that in 6 years or whatever there's been the same team all along, only a handful of new players introduced etc - so that this current crop of players are being driven into the ground and there'll be a a few lean years coming, if there isn't some new blood introduced? He did say that overall many or all people felt the Banty has done a great job, but has stalled, maybe gone backwards and new ideas and changes were needed to improve or win something before the current crop of players finished for good? 
I'd be interested in a Maguires, Harnguerars or a Monaghan man's thoughts on that? Any truth in any of that?
Both of us did agree that Monaghan would have given Cork or Dublin a good run yesterday and certainly run either Down or Kildare close if not beat them.

[DuffleKing]

The statement most certainly did not involve all of the players. a couple of experienced players i  know weren't even aware of it - presumably because they would not have concurred.

Banty is deluding himself at this stage and all he has achieved with this statement is to alienate (more) clubs

[haranguerer]

None of what the Monaghan man said surprises me Konica. For it to be opened to the floor there had to already be a fair amount of discontent.

Banty definitely hasn't done enough to develop the team. I also think the treatment of the sub keeper was atrocious, and nothing about Hughes lauded (ott'ly) performances in nets for those games has changed that. Did he do anything the sub keeper wouldnt have done? There couldnt have been that much difference in the kick-outs either I wouldnt have thought.

As regards the player statement, it couldn't be unanimous. Even if every player knew about it, whos going to go against the prevalent view, knowing that the returning manager will likely hear which players did and which players didnt back him?

I dont think it'll make any difference who takes them next year, this was this teams last push I feel. But I thought that with the success Banty has had, and the undoubted professionalism he has brought to M'han he might have been spared the indignity of being couped. Having said that, it appears to have been his own complacency which led to this situation, he may have been better off having  a chat with the co board before announcing he was staying...

I cant imagine him having success anywhere else - he instils a professional set-up, but couldnt have the same passion for another team as he did with m'han, and I think his awareness is limited enough. I'd say he'll have a go if anyone comes looking for him though, he does love seeing himself in the papers after all 

[ardmhachaabu]

None of what the Monaghan man said surprises me Konica. For it to be opened to the floor there had to already be a fair amount of discontent.

Banty definitely hasn't done enough to develop the team. I also think the treatment of the sub keeper was atrocious, and nothing about Hughes lauded (ott'ly) performances in nets for those games has changed that. Did he do anything the sub keeper wouldnt have done? There couldnt have been that much difference in the kick-outs either I wouldnt have thought.

As regards the player statement, it couldn't be unanimous. Even if every player knew about it, whos going to go against the prevalent view, knowing that the returning manager will likely hear which players did and which players didnt back him?

I dont think it'll make any difference who takes them next year, this was this teams last push I feel. But I thought that with the success Banty has had, and the undoubted professionalism he has brought to M'han he might have been spared the indignity of being couped. Having said that, it appears to have been his own complacency which led to this situation, he may have been better off having  a chat with the co board before announcing he was staying...

I cant imagine him having success anywhere else - he instils a professional set-up, but couldnt have the same passion for another team as he did with m'han, and I think his awareness is limited enough. I'd say he'll have a go if anyone comes looking for him though, he does love seeing himself in the papers after all 

I believe Banty wasn't the person who made the decision about the sub keeper

[haranguerer]

Well if thats true he definitely should go. If someone other than the manager is making key decisions, whats the point?

[Maguire01]

None of what the Monaghan man said surprises me Konica. For it to be opened to the floor there had to already be a fair amount of discontent.

Banty definitely hasn't done enough to develop the team. I also think the treatment of the sub keeper was atrocious, and nothing about Hughes lauded (ott'ly) performances in nets for those games has changed that. Did he do anything the sub keeper wouldnt have done? There couldnt have been that much difference in the kick-outs either I wouldnt have thought.

As regards the player statement, it couldn't be unanimous. Even if every player knew about it, whos going to go against the prevalent view, knowing that the returning manager will likely hear which players did and which players didnt back him?

I dont think it'll make any difference who takes them next year, this was this teams last push I feel. But I thought that with the success Banty has had, and the undoubted professionalism he has brought to M'han he might have been spared the indignity of being couped. Having said that, it appears to have been his own complacency which led to this situation, he may have been better off having  a chat with the co board before announcing he was staying...

I cant imagine him having success anywhere else - he instils a professional set-up, but couldnt have the same passion for another team as he did with m'han, and I think his awareness is limited enough. I'd say he'll have a go if anyone comes looking for him though, he does love seeing himself in the papers after all 

I believe Banty wasn't the person who made the decision about the sub keeper

So who do you believe it was? And do you 'believe' or do you 'know? Because there's a big difference.