Seeing as changing the Championship is en vogue...

[criostlinn]

One theme that seems to be coming across in alot of the posts is that the current provincial system is unfair because it gives the smaller provinces an unfair advantage. If this is the case why are Connaght teams not winning more all irelands. Why is there no Connaght team in the last 4. How come Cork despite all the great reviews of them over the last few years have failed to claim the big prize and Tyrone despite having such a huge "disadvantage" have won 3 a/i's in 7 years.

[sheamy]

Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.

whilst I agree it is loaded in favour of the provinces you mentioned (especially kerry/cork as it has always been), I disagree that this is a good enough reason for giving up the tradition of our provincial competitions. We should not ever become "champions league" type format in my view just because some of the other provinces are less competitive. We are worldly unique in our structure and long may it remain so. Some things shouldn't be slain on the altar of "change". We all breath the same air, have the same ability to train our teams and build our own traditions. It just takes hard work to catch up with the leaders of the time. thinking that a structural change is gonna work is deluding ourselves. It's the passion and energy in your county that dictates your success, nothing else. All imo so feel free to tear my thoughts to pieces!

[ross4life]

If

Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.

If Ulster is so competitive then why has it been so long since someone other than Tyrone or Armagh have won it?

[sheamy]

If

Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.

If Ulster is so competitive then why has it been so long since someone other than Tyrone or Armagh have won it?

who mentioned Ulster being the most competitive? Turn round and slap that big chip off your shoulder.

[Rossfan]

. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners.

They had no effin complaints when they were winning A I s through the Qualifier route 
Maybe they should look at where they went wrong in selecting/preparing their teams 

[ross4life]

If

Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.

If Ulster is so competitive then why has it been so long since someone other than Tyrone or Armagh have won it?

who mentioned Ulster being the most competitive? Turn round and slap that big chip off your shoulder.

Well you did class connacht/munster as least competitive provinces didn't you? you may have a point with Munster (1992 clare other than kerry/cork)


Edit i'm picking up the post Derry Optimist made about provinces, apologizes sheamy

[sheamy]

If

Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.

If Ulster is so competitive then why has it been so long since someone other than Tyrone or Armagh have won it?

who mentioned Ulster being the most competitive? Turn round and slap that big chip off your shoulder.

Well you did class connacht/munster as least competitive provinces didn't you? you may have a point with Munster (1992 clare other than kerry/cork)

yes, I said they weren't the most contested. My point was that noone (before I posted) mentioned ulster as being the most competitive which you stated. You raised this based on something in your head rather than on this thread. The meedja (SG) have tried to flag this crap before. It's nonsense. Don't suck it in.

read the edit. point still stands imo. don't believe the crap that falls out of the mouth of all these bollocks' on the rte coverage (especially including my own county men!!!)

[ross4life]

I didn't say the most.. i said some think it's more competitive when stat's tell's us otherwise, before 99 the ulster championship was wide open 98 Derry 97 Cavan 96/95 Tyrone 94 Down 93 Derry 92 Donegal

& i certainly don't have a chip on my shoulder my dad is from Donegal & i've been to many Ulster championship games

[Zulu]

All imo so feel free to tear my thoughts to pieces!

Well here goes so!

We should not ever become "champions league" type format in my view just because some of the other provinces are less competitive.

That's not the reason I'm in favour of abolishing the provincial championships. There are a number of reasons, not least among them the fact that they cause fixture chaos for CB's who can't plan club fixtures until they know if their county team wins their provincial championship games. We don't get to see the big teams play each other enough, very few counties actually win them and the ones that do aren't too bothered if they win them or not anymore and a good few more reasons on top of that.

We are worldly unique in our structure and long may it remain so.

Why? Unique means nothing, good means something. If our structures are as good as they can be then we should keep them, unique or not. If they are not, and they aren't then we should look for something else.

We all breath the same air, have the same ability to train our teams and build our own traditions. It just takes hard work to catch up with the leaders of the time.

Tell that to Limerick who may have to beat both Kerry and Cork to win Munster next year, would you fancy your own counties chances of winning something if they had to beat both of them?

thinking that a structural change is gonna work is deluding ourselves. It's the passion and energy in your county that dictates your success, nothing else.

It isn't about generating success for the Limerick's of this world it is about creating a competition format which gives everyone the same chance of success, you have to win the same amount of games played at the same time.

[Derry Optimist]

The current All Ireland championship is full of inequalities for example;
(1) It is much easier for Connacht and Munster provincial winners to reach the present All Ireland quarter finals simply because they have less matches to play.
(2) 1992 was the only year since 1935 that either Kerry or Cork did not win the provincial title.
(3) Sligo and Leitrim have only won five provincial titles between them since 1892.
(4) Counties like Carlow, Longford, Antrim and Waterford have also won very few provincial championships. Indeed others like Fermanagh and Wicklow have won none.
(5) A propgressive side like Limerick have to  always beat one if not (Kerry and Cork) of the best counties in Ireland if they are ever to win a Munster title. Clearly any system which tolerates these anomalies and inbuilt inequities is totall unfair. The cornerstone of our championship should be equality for all counties. A champions league format would give every county( on the same dates) the same chance of success.

[ross4life]

The current All Ireland championship is full of inequalities for example;
(1) It is much easier for Connacht and Munster provincial winners to reach the present All Ireland quarter finals simply because they have less matches to play.
(2) 1992 was the only year since 1935 that either Kerry or Cork did not win the provincial title.
(3) Sligo and Leitrim have only won five provincial titles between them since 1892.
(4) Counties like Carlow, Longford, Antrim and Waterford have also won very few provincial championships. Indeed others like Fermanagh and Wicklow have won none.
(5) A propgressive side like Limerick have to  always beat one if not (Kerry and Cork) of the best counties in Ireland if they are ever to win a Munster title. Clearly any system which tolerates these anomalies and inbuilt inequities is totall unfair. The cornerstone of our championship should be equality for all counties. A champions league format would give every county( on the same dates) the same chance of success.

(1)On paper Connacht/Munster does indeed look easier to reach the Quarter finals, but take Kerry/Dublin out of the honours list & it's not a lot different regardless which province you play in

(2) can't speak for Munster but pretty shocking stats

(3) to be fair to Sligo/Leitrim they would have won more if not for great Roscommon teams of 40s 70s Mayo 20s 50s Galway 30s 60s ETC...
(4) the like's of Carlow,Longford Fermanagh live in hope of a provincial title.. imagine there dismay if it was no more

(5) Would Limerick win title's in leinster/ulster if they had the chance? Connacht maybe but no more than Sligo/Leitrim IMO

A champions league format? the Gaa won't go the way of soccer

Trust me if Derry win Ulster next year it will mean as much to ye as the Connacht title did to us a few weeks ago & why would GAA get rid of that... like some have suggested here?

Every championship is full of inequalities Senior, Minor & under 21 eventually the GAA HQ will push the right buttons (i hope)

[Mike Sheehy]

The current All Ireland championship is full of inequalities for example;
(1) It is much easier for Connacht and Munster provincial winners to reach the present All Ireland quarter finals simply because they have less matches to play.
(2) 1992 was the only year since 1935 that either Kerry or Cork did not win the provincial title.
(3) Sligo and Leitrim have only won five provincial titles between them since 1892.
(4) Counties like Carlow, Longford, Antrim and Waterford have also won very few provincial championships. Indeed others like Fermanagh and Wicklow have won none.
(5) A propgressive side like Limerick have to  always beat one if not (Kerry and Cork) of the best counties in Ireland if they are ever to win a Munster title. Clearly any system which tolerates these anomalies and inbuilt inequities is totall unfair. The cornerstone of our championship should be equality for all counties. A champions league format would give every county( on the same dates) the same chance of success.

hey Derry optimist...riddle me this...why have Cavan not won 20 All Irelands ?

[sheamy]

All imo so feel free to tear my thoughts to pieces!

Well here goes so!

We should not ever become "champions league" type format in my view just because some of the other provinces are less competitive.

That's not the reason I'm in favour of abolishing the provincial championships. There are a number of reasons, not least among them the fact that they cause fixture chaos for CB's who can't plan club fixtures until they know if their county team wins their provincial championship games. We don't get to see the big teams play each other enough, very few counties actually win them and the ones that do aren't too bothered if they win them or not anymore and a good few more reasons on top of that.

We are worldly unique in our structure and long may it remain so.

Why? Unique means nothing, good means something. If our structures are as good as they can be then we should keep them, unique or not. If they are not, and they aren't then we should look for something else.

We all breath the same air, have the same ability to train our teams and build our own traditions. It just takes hard work to catch up with the leaders of the time.

Tell that to Limerick who may have to beat both Kerry and Cork to win Munster next year, would you fancy your own counties chances of winning something if they had to beat both of them?

thinking that a structural change is gonna work is deluding ourselves. It's the passion and energy in your county that dictates your success, nothing else.

It isn't about generating success for the Limerick's of this world it is about creating a competition format which gives everyone the same chance of success, you have to win the same amount of games played at the same time.

but does the current backdoor system not provide the escape from the kerrys and the corks that you're after? Aplogies in advance  but i'll take the example of ulster.

Since the introduction of the qualifier system we've seen AI semi final appearances for fermanagh, armagh, tyrone, derry, donegal and down. Monaghan have been there or there abouts too and Antrim have started to improve alot. Only really Cavan have failed to show any kind of form.

Only two of those teams have gotten there via winning their provincial title. Is this not an example of equality that you say is missing?

[The Forfeit Point]

The current All Ireland championship is full of inequalities for example;
(1) It is much easier for Connacht and Munster provincial winners to reach the present All Ireland quarter finals simply because they have less matches to play.
(2) 1992 was the only year since 1935 that either Kerry or Cork did not win the provincial title.
(3) Sligo and Leitrim have only won five provincial titles between them since 1892.
(4) Counties like Carlow, Longford, Antrim and Waterford have also won very few provincial championships. Indeed others like Fermanagh and Wicklow have won none.
(5) A propgressive side like Limerick have to  always beat one if not (Kerry and Cork) of the best counties in Ireland if they are ever to win a Munster title. Clearly any system which tolerates these anomalies and inbuilt inequities is totall unfair. The cornerstone of our championship should be equality for all counties. A champions league format would give every county( on the same dates) the same chance of success.

to win anything, you are going to have to beat the best. isn't it up to the likes of limerick to try and get up to the level of cork and kerry?

[DB_An_Mhi]

The current All Ireland championship is full of inequalities for example;
(5) A propgressive side like Limerick have to  always beat one if not (Kerry and Cork) of the best counties in Ireland if they are ever to win a Munster title. Clearly any system which tolerates these anomalies and inbuilt inequities is totall unfair. The cornerstone of our championship should be equality for all counties. A champions league format would give every county( on the same dates) the same chance of success.

But that is what makes it The "Munster" Title and gives it Kudos. Winning a MT without beating Kerry and/or Cork along the way (OK it will never happen in real terms in a six county province) would take from the achievement.

As for it penalising Limerick in All-Ireland terms (because they never win a Munster football title and get to the QF automatically) - they go into the qualifiers where all things are relatively equal. The better they do in Munster (like this year) the fewer games they play in the qualifiers.

And if you want to use the argument that they do not play as many games in Munster as other counties, Kildare played one game in Leinster this year and look where they are now. If you are good enough, you will make it to the latter stages, albeit via the scenic route.