Seeing as changing the Championship is en vogue...

[ross4life]

Watching back the ALL Ireland Gold on TG4 i can't help feeling why did the Gaa have to fix something that wasn't broke  of course the money men in grey suits wanted more games/more money

[Rossfan]

What was so great about the old system R4L ?

[Zulu]

Any proposal which wants to abolish the Provincial Championships will NEVER see the light of day.

I disagree. I think there is a shift towards this line of thinking, though I'd accept it won't happen in the next 10 ten years or so. I have no real affection for the provincial championships myself but they can always be retained as a stand alone competition but linking them with the AI is madness IMO because geographical location influences your chances of success and the provinces are uneven. Nobody would come up with the provincial system now so we shouldn't be tied to it for traditions sake.

[norabeag]

What was so great about the old system R4L ?

I think some one has taken a bite out of his bun today. What with this post and then taking a swipe at john Maughan on another thread that he re visited after 5 months

[ross4life]

What was so great about the old system R4L ?

Didn't say it was great but provincial championships seemed more important to everyone back then, it meant a Semi final in Croke park, you didn't have situation back then where Meath, kerry (provincial winners) waited weeks to play a team off the back of 4/5 game ETC...

[ross4life]

What was so great about the old system R4L ?

I think some one has taken a bite out of his bun today. What with this post and then taking a swipe at john Maughan on another thread that he re visited after 5 months

It's no Side Swipe, it's the 1st time i saw that thread & i wouldn't be surprised if Maughan is one of those that was paid & btw i met Maughan a few day's after he resigned i shook his hand & wished him well in the future

[DB_An_Mhi]

The current system as a knock out competition gives championship matches an edge they would lack in a league format. Careful what you wish for.

[Zulu]

The current system as a knock out competition gives championship matches an edge they would lack in a league format. Careful what you wish for.

Who is looking for a league format for the championship?

[DB_An_Mhi]

The current system as a knock out competition gives championship matches an edge they would lack in a league format. Careful what you wish for.

Who is looking for a league format for the championship?

League, mini-league, group format ... call it what you like ... before the knock out stage proper.

[Zulu]

If you're refering to my format then there is no league at all and only a straight knockout championship. The only connection between the two is that your league position will dictate your seeding for the championship. but in essence you could come last in division 4 having lost all your games and still win the AI, it's just that your route would be very difficult.

[BallyhaiseMan]

The old system was deeply flawed.
Teams training for 8 months,all the diets,heavy weights and horrendous field sessions,for one game. That is unnacceptable.


My idea
-Get rid of the pre season(McKenna,O Byrne Cup etc)

-Have a watered down six division League as the warm up competition,with a reduced amount of games.
-Id favour an NFL style system for the championship,
-8 groups of 4,based on geographical location.
-Each team plays each other home and away
-(so thats 6 games for each team)
-Each game is played every fortnight,with club championship games allowed on the Thursday/Friday nights of the week in between(county managers,not allowed to stop players playing for their club)
-IC Championship starts first week in May, group stages over in mid july(12 weeks)

-Quarter Finals,comprising of the winner of each group,on the Bank holiday in August just like they are now.

[neilthemac]

I'm not one for changing systems. I'd go for a straight knockout Championship every day of the week, but that's never going to happen again.

But there does seem to be this ongoing issue with a number of people that the qualifiers system isn't fair. Personally I think these people are inconsistent moaners and whingers, who just dont accept that a defeat is a defeat without first blaming ten levels of committee men, but that's another story.

But should we have to appease them, we have to do two things:

1) Ensure that the system is completely equitable.
2) Somehow, manage to achieve no.1 while maintaining the Provinicial Championships.

The Provincial Championships can't go - partly beacause the provincial councils won't ever support a motion to remove their cash cow, partly because anyone who has ever driven across Ireland for a qualifier, comes back understanding just how good local derbies are.


And here is the solution:

- The National League is truncated to five/six games apiece, played in February and March.
- The Provincial Championships are brought forward and take place from mid-April through to the end of May, and are based on the current system.
- On the 1st of June, an open draw is made, placing the teams into pools of four  (for want of a better description, a la the Champions League).
- The major kicker here is that the provincial finalists are seeded in the draw (i.e, each of the eight groups has a provinical finalist). Every other team is unseeded.
- The second major kicker here is that the provinical finalists get to play each of their three pool games at home.
- The other three teams in their pool get one home game apiece (A v B, A v C, A v D, B v C, C v D, D v B).
- These three games would be played every other weekend from mid-June to the end of July.
- One team (one team only, no need to be greedy like the Champion's League), progresses through to the quarter-finals.
- Quarter-finals mid August, semi-final start of September, final mid to end of September.


This would be an entirely equitable system in that at the start of each year, each team has the same chance of winning a Provincial Championship, and thereby giving themselves a better chance of reaching an All-Ireland quarter-final.

And each team would have three All-Ireland Championship matches to prove their worth before the straight knockout begins.

The biggest boost it would give the GAA is is reinforcing the importance of the Provincial Championships. They become prizes worth winning on two very big counts.

There is an historic anomaly in the size of some provinces, meaning someone drawn long in the Leinster Championship may have two more games to play than someone drawn short in the Connacht, but this will be the case in every system that includes a Provincial Championship.


Under this system, the maximum number of Championship games a team could face in winning an All-Ireland would be 10, and the minimum would be four. This is a change from eight and two under the current system, hence the League really should be truncated, otherwise club football would be ruined in some counties.


We'd worry about groups of five for NY and London later.

Yes, I am aware that this has nothing to with stickfighting. It's all football.

did you get that off a Dublin forum?

[thewobbler]

Not guilty neilthemac.

Rossfan, I've never mentioned abolishing the provincials.

Also, this is Championship football. It's the blue riband, the best of the best. It's a bit shit that not everyone can win it, but if it was was easy to win it wouldn't be worth winning. Lessening the competition by filling it up with backdoors, loser's cups and prizes for everyone is not the way forward.

[neilthemac]

Not guilty neilthemac.

Rossfan, I've never mentioned abolishing the provincials.

Also, this is Championship football. It's the blue riband, the best of the best. It's a bit shit that not everyone can win it, but if it was was easy to win it wouldn't be worth winning. Lessening the competition by filling it up with backdoors, loser's cups and prizes for everyone is not the way forward.

no worries. saw something very similar over at ReservoirDubs.


*******************************
scrap all the pre league tournaments -  O'Byrne Cup, FBD league, etc
make the national league into divisions of 5/6 teams. then you'd have at least 2 less games to play off (and remove league finals for all but division 1 would give another free weekend - automatic promotion and relegation for top two teams). some club games could be fitted in.
use the extra weekends to run the provincial championships off (say 4 game weekends over 10 weeks leaving time for club matches, still on an open draw format). a little break followed by...
All-Ireland Championships: based on provincial winners, finalists and league winners, seed all teams (based on year's results - with co-efficients for each division) into groups of 4/5 teams and play off 3 games on succesive weekends on home/away basis. top two in each division go into last 16 of the competition (top teams get home venue) and its knockout from there with 8 weeks to play off the last 4 games.

so in this format
1 - all teams rewarded for succeeding in league with good seeding for championship
2 - chance for teams to win provincial honours. a good run in provinces is rewarded with seeding and form coming into the All-Ireland.
3 - weaker teams across each group will be confident enough of winning 1 game due to seeding of teams
4 - 3 All-Ireland championship games for all teams.
5 - home games in the All-Ireland round robin and knockout

at least i tried to make a simple system
I calculated it at 4/5 games in league
4 games max to win leinster
7 games to then win all-ireland

[Derry Optimist]

Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.