AISF 2010: An Dún vs Cill Dara

[rrhf]

My problem with Mc Enaney was his decision not to award the penalty at the end.  Crowded goalmouth man jumps on the ball on the ground is always a penalty.  The speed of Mc enaneys whistle and his signal for the hop ball to end the attack was an emphatic rejection of the penalty award - in other words he had no doubt whatsoever he was making a non decision - what sort of decision is that?  A sensible referee would have blown the whistle when a foul had been caused and ran in and became more aware of the lie of the ball and awarded the penalty.   He didnt want to give it simple as that.  Whilst delighted that Downs in an all ireland final I am gutted for Kildare men who deserve to be there, alas it wasnt there day.   

[Donnellys Hollow]

Well done to Down. Too many of our big players didn't play up to what they're capable of and Down were deserving of their win. Only Johnny and Leper Callaghan really played well whereas all Down's big names were superb.

I'm gutted for the likes of Johnny, Dermot, Anthony Rainbow and Killian Brennan, guys who soldiered on poor Kildare teams for years and will not get a better opportunity than this again. I though we made some strange decisions on the line and a few crucial calls went Down's way but I won't go into that here. I wouldn't want to take anything away from Down because they played some great football.

Kildare will be back but we're still a few short of really challenging. The spine of the team is still relatively young and inexperienced and there's a strong panel emerging now. If you'd have told any Kildareman at the start of the year we'd end up in an All-Ireland semi-final with a midfield pairing of Roli Sweeney and Hughie Lynch they'd have laughed at you. Hopefully a fully fit Mikey Conway, Dermot Earley and Rob Kelly will be back for next year and three or four additions to the panel can freshen things up a bit - Tommy O'Neill, Seán Murphy, James Eaton, Danny Egan, Gavin Smullen all possibles.

I fear we won't get a better chance again for decades though.

[Maiden1]

The ref can't win.  Sludden made a decision without consulting his umpires.  Pat McEneney asked his umpire who was standing a yard away from Benny who said it was a goal.  The umpire should have seen that it was a square ball and once McEneney talked to him and the umpire was adamant it was a legitimate goal it was hard for the ref to go against him.  The point as well definitely looked over but the ref can't do anything about the umpire not being able to see straight.

On the sunday game the panelists where talking about the ball being touched on the ground at the end.  Des Cahill was saying things like 'when you slow it right down you can clearly see' .. 'not so much from this camera angle but from ..', even with all this technology, slowed down and 5 camera angles the panelists couldn't agree on the decision.  What chance does the ref have in real time with bodies all around.  Do people want to have it like the NFL where the match is stopped and goes to an add break after every free?

It is getting to the stage where every game the ref is getting abused by the panelists at 1/2 time and after the match.  It really is a thankless task.  I would say if you watch every tight game over the last 20 years you could pick out things where the ref made mistakes a player took too many steps/soft frees/blocked runs.

Kildare got back into it after down got the goal and it was 1-3 to 0-6 at one stage so it wasn't like Kildare hadn't time to react to the bad decision (unlike Louth).  Down took over for about 25 minutes and built up a big lead which meant Kildare where going to find it hard to come back.  Fair play to Kildare a lot of teams like Sligo did might have threw the towel in once they thought they where beat but Kildare kept going right to the final whistle and could very well have sneaked it at the end.  They where probably the width of a post/dodgy umpire/couple of missed handy frees away from an AI final they could very well have won.

[thewobbler]

What a day. Really, what a day.

Re the big decisions. Kildare can claim many injustices but I think even their most ardent supporter would have to admit that the better team won on the day. McEnaney really did have a dreadful game. The big three decisions he got wrong in Down's favour, but from our perspective, he got a litany of smaller decisions wrong that all seemed to benefit Kildare. The Lillywhites must have gotten literally twice as many frees as Down, and King's shoulder charge aside, Down never made a bad tackle in the game. The push on Marty Clarke in the first 10 seconds that became a Kildare free, the push on Benny Coulter at the halfway line with 10 minutes to go, the shocking decisions against Maginn towards the end and McCartan towards the start, stand out as a 3 or 4 point swing towards Kildare. I'd also point out that Kildare's goal arose from a short kickout when a Kildare man was lying prone at midfield and a number of Down players had switched off, expecting the physio to come on. A bit naïve from Down, yes, but still an unfair advantage for Kildare. As was the 5 minutes of injury time.

Re the performances. Hughes, Marty Clarke, King and McKernan were exceptional. Poland, Garvey, Fitzpatrick all had big games. The full-back line did their jobs plus some. Maginn made a big difference when he came on and he'll be very unlucky if not selected ahead of McComiskey for the final. Ditto Murtagh for John Clarke.

It wasn't a vintage Down performance; there was only one period of domination just prior the Kildare goal when they really gelled as a team. But was gutsy as hell, and it was smart. Maginn, Clarke and Poland showed tremendous intelligence in the final quarter. King led like a man beast from the middle. McKernan really looks like he understands what playing no.6 is all about. There were no needless frees given away. The full back line were never left exposed. Down had everyone back inside their own 45 when it needed to be done. There wasn't an aimless high ball thrown in on top of Coulter all day. The subs all played a role. Which all means the management team deserve huge credit; it's the best organised Down team I've ever seen. 

[lynchbhoy]

Not happy with refs perf.
Now more than ever I think there should be video replays at the behest of each manager -3 allotted each per match (with ref being able to call for any replays they want).
A Chip in the ball to verify if it goes over the sideline/endline or between the posts or into the goal.
We should not have to wait for soccer to pioneer this kind of procedure/policy/strategy.


Ref was poor yesterday, but I am surprised that it seems people were not watching the game but listening to it, a lot of niggly persistent fouling was done by Kildare and they got away with it. Ref certainly gifted kildare handy frees in first half after goal to level things up I thought.

Kildare have obv trained in doing it – putting the arms round a guy for a second, then letting go and holding the hands in the air- not enough or long enough for a ref to give a free, but enough to control or put off an attacker or man with the ball. These are still 'Fouls'. That's the Armagh coaching.If this is now permissible in Gaelic football then I only wish someone would teach Derry this. That and the breaking ball expertise , which O'Rourke and McGeeney have brought to the flour bags– though that went missing after the 10th minute. This is surprising but shows that McCartan had his homework done and he won the battle of the sideline – which proves experience is essential for an intercounty manager.
Neither goal should have stood. Down had to be half killed before being given a free while Kildare got the same tackles as fouls no problem. Only Marty Clarke seemed to get preferential treatment.
Three or four frees went the wrong way – should have been frees to down – but ended up with Kildare getting 1-2 or 1-3 directly out of them. I felt there were a few more decisions that could or should have been reversed – for both teams.
Was that a penalty at the end or was the down player puched or held down on the deck – I still think he was hovering over the ball which is a hop ball not a penalty.
Don't think Down could have complained too much if it was a penalty – they had chances to clear it – it was highly reminiscent of the louth v meath leinster final last minute incident!
All in all, I think not only should we pioneer video replay technology for all intercounty games in all intercounty championship venues, we need the chip in the ball technology and given the persistent fouling and incorrect decisions made by mcEnaney yesterday and as a whole throughout the championship – we need a second referee on the pitch.
Teams train too long and hard for nothing (payment wise) in order to get robbed by officials. I remember as a player that taking a beating was fine and acceptable – the better team wins – but inept officiation makes you angry. This does not excuse people hitting refs etc – and we need policy and procedure for pitch invaders, ref assailants etc.
We have a whole lot of things to do on the admin side of the GAA – as the games themselves – well the two AI semi finals were spectacularly brilliant.

The loss of Early was cancelled out by the loss of Rogers.
John doyle prob deserves player of the year, as he does more throughout the field than BB does for Dubs.

Lastly – I almost kicked the telly when rob Kelly was about to take that last free (took a good 5 yards more than where the free took place from !) Kevin mcstay said ' we don't know if the players are allowed to touch the ball or if it can be scored DIRECTLY' – that's f**king soccer you gabsihte.
Get this fcukwit off the telly !

[rrhf]

Id agree with that, and ciongratulations to Down who put together a tremendous performance yesterday.  So many of the big names are playing well.  I predicted in March that Down would win the all ireland and now its very near to fruition.  The 2 semis this years and minor games have been excellent, but having watched an absolute idiot refereeing a club match yesterday and wtaching that on TV the problem with gaelic games isnt the players or the rules it the officials.   

[Dinny Breen]

Good analysis LB, not much to argue with there expect maybe the Kildare goal, it should have been a penalty but advantage was palyed and one of few things duck arse got right.

But overall both sides weren't served well by the ref but if we're honest Kildare's performance didn't merit a win.

JD is simply the best role model in Ireland for any aspiring GAA player, a great attitude, work-rate who never lets his head drop, a worthy player of the year.

[Dinny Breen]

because he had a defender hanging of him imho

[paddypastit]

Very different semi final to the first one but no less edge or drama, all be it stuffed into the end.

Thought at the outset that Down's greater footballing ability would be telling and it was, just about.

Thought that they were the better team after the first 12 / 15 minutes but Kildare still kept trying to force the pace by sheer determination and will - both managers deserve a lot of credit for having their teams playing to their strengths - 3 of the fours teams in the semi finals can say that... oddly the favourites for the All Ireland are the only ones that can't!

Overall McEnaney had a poor game. His defenders here can dress it up any way they want but he was poor. I'm nuetral but for the first twenty minutes Kildare got every decision and more - frees for nothing - whereas a Down player needed to be half killed, then the goal goes in and then the decisions 'evened out'. Thought he gave some odd decisions both ways in the run of play in the second half... and then there were the much talked about controversial calls although I wouldn't actually wouldn't fault him directly for all those

-    The Down goal - square ball obviously, not even a discussion. As someone here said, can't know what Pat McEnaney asked his umpire but if he did go in to enquire if it was a square ball,   
      you'd think that he might have asked the guy on the side of the square that Coulter was standing? While I think he was poor on the day, a referee that was 40 / 50 yards out may
      genuinely not be able to judge in the square or not. For the two boys on the square - for whom it is one of two basic things that they have to do - it was inexcusable.  Not really the
      refs call on that.
-    On the Kildare goal - way more steps that allowed but the player was fouled - just - so it ought alternately have been a penalty. He allowed the play continue and Kildare got the goal.
     On the basis that one has to give the advantage to the attacking team, right call.
-    Kildare 'points' that were not given? I was in the Davin end on the corner of the Cusack so wouldn't have had any proper view on the one in the first half - would have to accept the call
     of whoever was down that end - umpires.  On the one in the second half - after the shot off the post - I was directly facing the flight of that ball and it looked wide to me in real time.
     Either way - umpires call again
-    At the end, Down player touched the ball on the ground - only issue is was it in the small square.  To my naked eye at the time yes. The referee to be fair had to be unsighted but his
     umpires were not and don't see why he couldn't have consulted? Think he could have whistled, consulted and then decided rather than deciding he wasn't going to decide (if you know
     what I mean) Either way it was a 'free' kick to Kildare, only question was could Down have 1 or 15 men on the line.
-    On injury time played, there was a Kildare player down for 40 odd seconds of injury time so the game had to go beyond the allotted 'at least' time.  There was also an extended 
     discussion with the Kildare forwards befor Kelly's piledriver so all in can't criticise the ref on that. The only interesting call on that was, did the ref tell the Kildare forwards that the free was
     the last kick of the game? If so, then would he have blown the whistle as soon as Kalum King touched the ball as that was effectively the ball being played again? - OK guess that would
     be pushing it.

On the football, Down were not as good as against Kerry but then Kildare were better than Kerry and a different proposition all over the field.  For most of the game, Kildare players were first out to the ball at either end and, initially in the MF too.  Thought though that once Down got on top in the middle third after 12 / 15 minutes or so that Kildare were in trouble in terms of an ability to control the ball - something that Down were notably better at.

Down have a clear defensive system that involves them all working in concert.  I thought mid way through the first half that Kildare had sussed that but then the quality of ball, or more precisely the amount of unpressurised ball that Kildare were getting into the inside line decreased, and decreased further as the game went on, so it evened out.

I though Hughes had a great game. His willingness to burrow for dirty ball around the middle when it was really tight and the way that he used his pace to take the ball out of crowded areas and then make space for others was telling.  Clarke is a real stlyist and had another very good game but not as centrally influential as in the Kerry game.  As for Coulter, he did some magnificent things - the late first half point being the most exquisite - but for me, while brilliant at certain things on the ball, it is just at certain things and his success relies on service and being in the right place.  The latter is in his control, but can be impeded / influenced by a quality opponent.  The former is completely out of his control - the next day could be interesting.

Kildare's finishing, as it has been before, was just that bit off and in truth if they were as far ahead as they should have been before the goal went in, then it would have been a different game. It was that, rather than the goal itself, that was the killer for Kildare at the end of the first quarter.  At that stage of the game, they were getting all the ball in the MF even from the Down kickouts, were winning the one on one in both attack and defence, were getting all the 50/50 refereeing calls plus and seemed to have the measure of the Down defence and its system but they didn't drive it home.  If having conceded the iilegal goal they were still 3 or 4 points up, as they should have been, the flow of the game would have been different. They hadn't and in contrast, because I would argue of their superior footballing ability, Down when they got their chance(s) drove home the advantage, got ahead, stayed ahead and were the deserving winners.

Cork will be a very different type of opponent but nothing that Down will be frightened of. Many would say that Down will have to be better than they were yesterday. That is possibly true but yesterday they faced a really well drilled team and they won't meet that co-ordinated discipline again this year, and if they do it is because Cork have upped their game to a level not seen before.

Presume it will be Down in the yellow and black with Cork in all white for the final? Seems fairer that both change rather than neither?

[Donnellys Hollow]

Was that definitely Rainbow's last involvement Dinny?

[Dinny Breen]

Yea definitely as a player, gooch as well, not 100% on that..

[Donnellys Hollow]

Pity he didn't have a little cameo at any stage this summer. I don't think we'll ever see an inter-county career spanning 20 years again - certainly not from an outfield player anyway.

[AZOffaly]

He was some servant, Rainbow.

I posted on another thread about how much I enjoyed that game, it was great stuff. Kildare must have an awful feeling of what if this morning. What if that square ball had been given, what if the 'wides' were points, what if Kelly's last minute shot went in, but I think the two biggest what ifs will be 'What if our forwards had performed at 80%, instead of only a couple of them?' and 'What if Flynn hadn't been concussed?'.

Down were excellent, and are great when they are moving with fluidity, but until the square ball, Kildare were winning nearly everything in the 40s. I suspect Flynn got his belt around then, because Down came into it there immediately, and when he went off Kildare were in serious trouble around the middle. Earley's loss they probably could manage, Earley and Flynn? No way.

I thought McEneaney gave Kildare a couple of soft frees after the goal alright, but the steps for the goal is not unusual. Practically any ref in Ireland will allow you to over carry if he feels you are being fouled, and O'Callaghan was being fouled, so it's not accurate to say one goal cancelled out the other, in my view.

I feel really sorry for Doyle, and Kildare, but I am delighted for Down too. Long time contributers on here will know I have a soft spot for Down, and to see them where they are now, compared to where they were after 15 minutes in Tullamore is something else.

[maldini]

who got man of the match?

[Donnellys Hollow]

Flynn's loss was huge alright AZ. He's been immense for Kildare all year with Dermot on one leg.

Lynch and Sweeney both tried hard but they were horsed out of it for long periods. Any ball going into Smith and Kavanagh was poor because we were getting beaten badly at midfield. I thought we should have thrown O'Connor on earlier and maybe moved Roli to the forwards.