The Official Brazil 2014 FIFA World Cup thread

[NAG1]

Hart didn't give himself the very best chance of saving Suarez's shot, but had he done he would have saved it two times in a million rather one time in a million. The ball was in the net in less time than it would take you to blink, let alone lift your arm.

While Gerrard wasn't at fault for the goal, he's had a poor World Cup. The extent to which each game passed him by was disturbing. Thankfully Liverpool have a manager who has a clue.

Can you see any of the other top quality mid fielders on the other so called top sides, not realising his position on the pitch and the position of the defenders behind him, he ducks out of the way it runs harmlessly to an England defender. No need to go and try to make a header there, I would have thought that was basic awareness and positioning from most mid fielders.

Cavani (I think it was) went for the ball as well. If he had gotten to it and flicked it on, you'd have given Gerrard grief for not competing. If Cahill had gotten tight to the man who is officially the most lethal striker in Europe this season, at least Suarez wouldn't have had a free shot. But I suppose it fits better into the pre-determined narrative to blame Gerrard.

No agenda against Gerrard, if memory serves me right the ball had beaten the Uruguayan who was in front of SG to the extent that he didnt jump, maybe I'm wrong. Bad positioning from both SG and and the centre half for a bad goal.

[thebigfella]

Sterling found out at last. A few good games surrounded by good players and suddenly the next best thing. We have been through this all before; Bentley the new Beckham etc..... I actually thought the pundits/media/etc... got it wrong about him against Italy. Lively enough but in reality offered very little threat so was afforded space to run around like a headless chicken. Last night, just not good enough to play at this level and probably will struggle in the champions league.

As for Welbeck, ffs would utd and England cop the fcuk on. Not good enough, QPR is his level.

Gerrard really tees them up for himself too. All that mouthing in the last few games for Liverpool and then it's his fcuk up (bit harsh probably) that gifts City the League. Again with England, mouthing about it being a long summer etc... and it's him who plays the ball through for Suarez. Living of the champions league final performance way too long. Hasn't really shown any bottle since.

[yellowcard]

I don't think any England player can say they've had a good tournament to be fair.
Sterling was excellent first game but wasn't great last night. Rooney was ok last night but poor the first game.
Welbeck is just shit and it is absolutely mind boggling that he starts for England at a World Cup.
Jagielka and Baines have been shown up for the small club players they are, unable to make the step up in class.
Gerrard has had a poor world cup in fairness. Henderson isn't the player he has been for Liverpool all season.
Even with the mistakes made in the lead up to the goals last night I think Seanie forgot to mention the brilliance of Suarez in his finishing  He still had an awful lot to do it wasn't like they were both tap ins.
I think a lot of the blame though is on Woy.The English press will be clamouring for 'Arry to take over now.

I can't stand the fecker granted but the finishes were good but were nothing to really rave about. First was on a plate and he put it where it needed to go. Second he controlled it well and then just smashed it cos he was knackered at that point. Got lucky that Hart lay down out of the way, he made himself small.

Rooney didn't play all that badly in the first game considering he was out of position. Assist for the first goal and really unlucky to miss the one where he sent the keeper the wrong way but it went wrong side of the post. I think he was much better than ok last night also. Welbeck is a decent player, no more, no less. Pace and power but not much guile. England have better options and should use them.

Hodgson is just too conservative but I'd say the suits in the FA are scared shitless of appointing Redknapp. I can see their point to a degree. Hodgson should start Barkley and Wilshere in the middle the next day with Lallana instead of Welbeck. He should give Jones and Shaw starts too, they can't do any worse than who they would be replacing (though I still think Baines deserves credit for his attacking play).

With Rooney we are already witnessing the slow gradual decline of a once very good player (admittedly most of those displays were in his early career). Rooney had a decent game last night but he no longer merits an England team being built around him. Still capable of producing moments of technical brilliance that no other English player is capable of, but also capable of infuriating mediocrity for a player of his ability. He is also devoid of the mobility and pace that he once possessed and football seems to be a chore for him now whereas at one time he looked like a street footballer in love with the game. Very similar to the way Torres has gone over the last few years.

Gerrard is another whose status has always been elevated above his ability. He is also capable of producing some moments of magic, but as his athleticism has declined his game has suffered as a result. He never had the discipline or game intelligence to know how to control a game from central midfield. In his younger days he wanted to be the man who made the sliding tackle, got up and played the killer pass for himself to get on the end of and score the goal. Now that he is no longer capable of playing this role, I have serious doubts about his role as a sitting midfielder. He did play well in certain games last season but when under serious pressure he resorted to type by attempting to play Roy of the Rovers stuff.

Those 2 players sum up English football in a nutshell. Good players but over hyped, uncultured and indulged by the media. Neither have done it on the biggest stage and I think England have to move on without them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see both of them retire after the World Cup in any case. 

[deiseach]

No agenda against Gerrard, if memory serves me right the ball had beaten the Uruguayan who was in front of SG to the extent that he didnt jump, maybe I'm wrong. Bad positioning from both SG and and the centre half for a bad goal.

The Uruguayan didn't jump, but if he had and beaten Gerrard to the ball then would you be saying Gerrard was right to let it go because he had reason to believe it was going to go 'harmlessly' though to an England defender? It's fair to say his positioning wasn't good. If it were, he'd have been in the right position to head the ball. But his error was in the ha'penny place compared to that of Cahill. Johnson wasn't too hot either. You'd swear they'd never seen Suarez play before.

[NAG1]

No agenda against Gerrard, if memory serves me right the ball had beaten the Uruguayan who was in front of SG to the extent that he didnt jump, maybe I'm wrong. Bad positioning from both SG and and the centre half for a bad goal.

The Uruguayan didn't jump, but if he had and beaten Gerrard to the ball then would you be saying Gerrard was right to let it go because he had reason to believe it was going to go 'harmlessly' though to an England defender? It's fair to say his positioning wasn't good. If it were, he'd have been in the right position to head the ball. But his error was in the ha'penny place compared to that of Cahill. Johnson wasn't too hot either. You'd swear they'd never seen Suarez play before.

So my initial point stands that his positioning and subsequent awareness of other players around him actually cost him, for my money I dont see De Rossi, Pirlo, Lamb or any of the other top players going to attempt to head that clearance. The top players are aware of who is around them both team mates and opponents and where the space is that is why they always seem to have more time and space than every one else because they can see these things.

[Franko]

I don't think any England player can say they've had a good tournament to be fair.
Sterling was excellent first game but wasn't great last night. Rooney was ok last night but poor the first game.
Welbeck is just shit and it is absolutely mind boggling that he starts for England at a World Cup.
Jagielka and Baines have been shown up for the small club players they are, unable to make the step up in class.
Gerrard has had a poor world cup in fairness. Henderson isn't the player he has been for Liverpool all season.
Even with the mistakes made in the lead up to the goals last night I think Seanie forgot to mention the brilliance of Suarez in his finishing  He still had an awful lot to do it wasn't like they were both tap ins.
I think a lot of the blame though is on Woy.The English press will be clamouring for 'Arry to take over now.

I can't stand the fecker granted but the finishes were good but were nothing to really rave about. First was on a plate and he put it where it needed to go. Second he controlled it well and then just smashed it cos he was knackered at that point. Got lucky that Hart lay down out of the way, he made himself small.

Rooney didn't play all that badly in the first game considering he was out of position. Assist for the first goal and really unlucky to miss the one where he sent the keeper the wrong way but it went wrong side of the post. I think he was much better than ok last night also. Welbeck is a decent player, no more, no less. Pace and power but not much guile. England have better options and should use them.

Hodgson is just too conservative but I'd say the suits in the FA are scared shitless of appointing Redknapp. I can see their point to a degree. Hodgson should start Barkley and Wilshere in the middle the next day with Lallana instead of Welbeck. He should give Jones and Shaw starts too, they can't do any worse than who they would be replacing (though I still think Baines deserves credit for his attacking play).

With Rooney we are already witnessing the slow gradual decline of a once very good player (admittedly most of those displays were in his early career). Rooney had a decent game last night but he no longer merits an England team being built around him. Still capable of producing moments of technical brilliance that no other English player is capable of, but also capable of infuriating mediocrity for a player of his ability. He is also devoid of the mobility and pace that he once possessed and football seems to be a chore for him now whereas at one time he looked like a street footballer in love with the game. Very similar to the way Torres has gone over the last few years.

Gerrard is another whose status has always been elevated above his ability. He is also capable of producing some moments of magic, but as his athleticism has declined his game has suffered as a result. He never had the discipline or game intelligence to know how to control a game from central midfield. In his younger days he wanted to be the man who made the sliding tackle, got up and played the killer pass for himself to get on the end of and score the goal. Now that he is no longer capable of playing this role, I have serious doubts about his role as a sitting midfielder. He did play well in certain games last season but when under serious pressure he resorted to type by attempting to play Roy of the Rovers stuff.

Those 2 players sum up English football in a nutshell. Good players but over hyped, uncultured and indulged by the media. Neither have done it on the biggest stage and I think England have to move on without them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see both of them retire after the World Cup in any case.

Agree with a lot of what you're saying but the bit in bold is bullshit.

[yellowcard]

I don't think any England player can say they've had a good tournament to be fair.
Sterling was excellent first game but wasn't great last night. Rooney was ok last night but poor the first game.
Welbeck is just shit and it is absolutely mind boggling that he starts for England at a World Cup.
Jagielka and Baines have been shown up for the small club players they are, unable to make the step up in class.
Gerrard has had a poor world cup in fairness. Henderson isn't the player he has been for Liverpool all season.
Even with the mistakes made in the lead up to the goals last night I think Seanie forgot to mention the brilliance of Suarez in his finishing  He still had an awful lot to do it wasn't like they were both tap ins.
I think a lot of the blame though is on Woy.The English press will be clamouring for 'Arry to take over now.

I can't stand the fecker granted but the finishes were good but were nothing to really rave about. First was on a plate and he put it where it needed to go. Second he controlled it well and then just smashed it cos he was knackered at that point. Got lucky that Hart lay down out of the way, he made himself small.

Rooney didn't play all that badly in the first game considering he was out of position. Assist for the first goal and really unlucky to miss the one where he sent the keeper the wrong way but it went wrong side of the post. I think he was much better than ok last night also. Welbeck is a decent player, no more, no less. Pace and power but not much guile. England have better options and should use them.

Hodgson is just too conservative but I'd say the suits in the FA are scared shitless of appointing Redknapp. I can see their point to a degree. Hodgson should start Barkley and Wilshere in the middle the next day with Lallana instead of Welbeck. He should give Jones and Shaw starts too, they can't do any worse than who they would be replacing (though I still think Baines deserves credit for his attacking play).

With Rooney we are already witnessing the slow gradual decline of a once very good player (admittedly most of those displays were in his early career). Rooney had a decent game last night but he no longer merits an England team being built around him. Still capable of producing moments of technical brilliance that no other English player is capable of, but also capable of infuriating mediocrity for a player of his ability. He is also devoid of the mobility and pace that he once possessed and football seems to be a chore for him now whereas at one time he looked like a street footballer in love with the game. Very similar to the way Torres has gone over the last few years.

Gerrard is another whose status has always been elevated above his ability. He is also capable of producing some moments of magic, but as his athleticism has declined his game has suffered as a result. He never had the discipline or game intelligence to know how to control a game from central midfield. In his younger days he wanted to be the man who made the sliding tackle, got up and played the killer pass for himself to get on the end of and score the goal. Now that he is no longer capable of playing this role, I have serious doubts about his role as a sitting midfielder. He did play well in certain games last season but when under serious pressure he resorted to type by attempting to play Roy of the Rovers stuff.

Those 2 players sum up English football in a nutshell. Good players but over hyped, uncultured and indulged by the media. Neither have done it on the biggest stage and I think England have to move on without them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see both of them retire after the World Cup in any case.

Agree with a lot of what you're saying but the bit in bold is bullshit.

Just to clarify, neither have done it often enough on the biggest stage. That means World Cup, European Championships and Champions League. And yes I know both of them scored in CL finals but neither were consistently the dominant players in the bigger games at the latter end of that tournament. They are often helped at club level by playing with players like Alonso, Torres, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes but when asked to lead a team at international level without that calibre of player around them they have struggled in practically every major tournament.

[thewobbler]

Last night was a strange cultural phenomenon.

The whole of Ireland ground to a halt to watch England play football, which is always a strange thing in itself. But then all the avowed Liverpool followers on this island spent 2 hrs talking about how bad Rooney is, and all the dyed-in-wool United fans spent the same time nitpicking every last contribution from Gerrard.

Given that the majority of football fans in Ireland support one of these two clubs, it actually became a truly parochial affair.

800 years of hurt? Who cares? It's all about the club you support.

(personally I welcome the lack of hurt)

----

England, like Ireland but on a bigger scale, have created a conundrum for themselves.

Their fans expect entertaining, possession-based football. But the basic simple fact is that for sheer technique, England rank in the bottom third of teams at this World Cup. You could argue strongly that England have got nowhere near a final for 50 years while playing direct football,  but I would argue more strongly again that England have no chance of ever reaching a final again until they revert to their strengths. Which means 4-4-2 with target men, quick wingers, tough defenders, and box-to-box midfielders. It doesn't have to mean Jack Charlton "give it a lash", but it does mean nothing complicated, nothing fancy: suck up pressure, and play percentages when moving forward.

Play Steven Gerrard at right back, Andy Carroll at centre-forward, Sturridge playing off him, and you might become predictable. But that doesn't make it easy to stop. Uruguay's second goal last night shows why.

[ballinaman]

Great post wobbler.

Enjoyed having Suarez on "my team" last night. 2nd goal was ridiculous, the anticipation...legs going from under him almost and still able to smash it, class.

[Billys Boots]

Great post wobbler

Agreed.

I spent the match (and the Italy match) thinking 'why are they avoiding playing to their strengths?'  They don't play patient possession football for their clubs - why are they trying to do it against teams who know how to do it much better than themselves?  It's as if they agreed what the best way to lose the game would be.

[Franko]

I don't think any England player can say they've had a good tournament to be fair.
Sterling was excellent first game but wasn't great last night. Rooney was ok last night but poor the first game.
Welbeck is just shit and it is absolutely mind boggling that he starts for England at a World Cup.
Jagielka and Baines have been shown up for the small club players they are, unable to make the step up in class.
Gerrard has had a poor world cup in fairness. Henderson isn't the player he has been for Liverpool all season.
Even with the mistakes made in the lead up to the goals last night I think Seanie forgot to mention the brilliance of Suarez in his finishing  He still had an awful lot to do it wasn't like they were both tap ins.
I think a lot of the blame though is on Woy.The English press will be clamouring for 'Arry to take over now.

I can't stand the fecker granted but the finishes were good but were nothing to really rave about. First was on a plate and he put it where it needed to go. Second he controlled it well and then just smashed it cos he was knackered at that point. Got lucky that Hart lay down out of the way, he made himself small.

Rooney didn't play all that badly in the first game considering he was out of position. Assist for the first goal and really unlucky to miss the one where he sent the keeper the wrong way but it went wrong side of the post. I think he was much better than ok last night also. Welbeck is a decent player, no more, no less. Pace and power but not much guile. England have better options and should use them.

Hodgson is just too conservative but I'd say the suits in the FA are scared shitless of appointing Redknapp. I can see their point to a degree. Hodgson should start Barkley and Wilshere in the middle the next day with Lallana instead of Welbeck. He should give Jones and Shaw starts too, they can't do any worse than who they would be replacing (though I still think Baines deserves credit for his attacking play).

With Rooney we are already witnessing the slow gradual decline of a once very good player (admittedly most of those displays were in his early career). Rooney had a decent game last night but he no longer merits an England team being built around him. Still capable of producing moments of technical brilliance that no other English player is capable of, but also capable of infuriating mediocrity for a player of his ability. He is also devoid of the mobility and pace that he once possessed and football seems to be a chore for him now whereas at one time he looked like a street footballer in love with the game. Very similar to the way Torres has gone over the last few years.

Gerrard is another whose status has always been elevated above his ability. He is also capable of producing some moments of magic, but as his athleticism has declined his game has suffered as a result. He never had the discipline or game intelligence to know how to control a game from central midfield. In his younger days he wanted to be the man who made the sliding tackle, got up and played the killer pass for himself to get on the end of and score the goal. Now that he is no longer capable of playing this role, I have serious doubts about his role as a sitting midfielder. He did play well in certain games last season but when under serious pressure he resorted to type by attempting to play Roy of the Rovers stuff.

Those 2 players sum up English football in a nutshell. Good players but over hyped, uncultured and indulged by the media. Neither have done it on the biggest stage and I think England have to move on without them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see both of them retire after the World Cup in any case.

Agree with a lot of what you're saying but the bit in bold is bullshit.

Just to clarify, neither have done it often enough on the biggest stage. That means World Cup, European Championships and Champions League. And yes I know both of them scored in CL finals but neither were consistently the dominant players in the bigger games at the latter end of that tournament. They are often helped at club level by playing with players like Alonso, Torres, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes but when asked to lead a team at international level without that calibre of player around them they have struggled in practically every major tournament.

I'm no Liverpool fan (and I agree about Rooney) but Gerrard took a Liverpool team (which was distinctly average on paper) to CL victory on his own.  He alone dominated the second half of that game.  Granted he had Alonso beside him but he was playing that night against a side that included Cafu, Stam, Maldini, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Kaka, Shevchenko and Crespo!  The stage doesn't get much bigger.

[rodney trotter]

Good analysis by Stuart Pearce http://t.co/gzlwgEWh1j

[deiseach]

I spent the match (and the Italy match) thinking 'why are they avoiding playing to their strengths?'  They don't play patient possession football for their clubs - why are they trying to do it against teams who know how to do it much better than themselves?  It's as if they agreed what the best way to lose the game would be.

But who are the clubs playing old school English football these days? There's a reason the England team is stuffed to the gills with Liverpool players - Liverpool are the only top six club with more than a couple of English players in their first team (it also gave Hodgson a get-out-of-jail-free card with the media, but that's another story). And while it certainly could be said that Liverpool's flaws were England's flaws *cough* Glen Johnson *cough* what Liverpool play isn't a case of getting the ball down the channels and turning the full backs.

[Billys Boots]

I spent the match (and the Italy match) thinking 'why are they avoiding playing to their strengths?'  They don't play patient possession football for their clubs - why are they trying to do it against teams who know how to do it much better than themselves?  It's as if they agreed what the best way to lose the game would be.

But who are the clubs playing old school English football these days? There's a reason the England team is stuffed to the gills with Liverpool players - Liverpool are the only top six club with more than a couple of English players in their first team (it also gave Hodgson a get-out-of-jail-free card with the media, but that's another story). And while it certainly could be said that Liverpool's flaws were England's flaws *cough* Glen Johnson *cough* what Liverpool play isn't a case of getting the ball down the channels and turning the full backs.

If you're not technically gifted then I reckon your game needs to be about pace and tempo (I refer, for example to Englan's goal v Italy) - England (and Uruguay also) were ponderous in midfield; that only works if you have Suarez up front, ensuring that the centre-halves are constantly fearful of him getting in behind them.  Rooney and Sturridge kept showing for the ball 30-40 yards from goal.  How did they seriously think they were going to get in on goal against that opposition?

[Bingo]

From John Nicholson on F365:

Recriminations are where we truly excel when it comes to international football. For decades every World Cup exit has been followed by hand-wringing and 'if only...' pleas. The press goes into a spasm of flatulant idiocy and, in essence, says 'everything we didn't do was everything we should have done and everything we did do was what we shouldn't have done'.

But the truth is there are simply no scapegoats left. They have all been used up.

These are the facts:

* We have failed with English managers, we have failed with overseas managers. It's not the manager.

* We have failed in hot climates, we have failed in cold climates, we have failed in equitable climates. It's not the climate.

* We have failed in Europe, Africa, the Far East and South America. It's not the continent.

* We have failed by isolating the players beforehand, we have failed by not isolating them. It's not where they stay.

* We have failed after not preparing everything in minute detail, we have failed by preparing in minute detail. It's not the preparation.

* We have failed playing Wayne Rooney out of position and in position, in the team, out of the team. It's not Wayne.

* We have failed when the Premier League/First Division hardly had any overseas players, we have failed when it is stuffed with overseas players. It's not about nationality.

* We have failed playing 4-4-2, 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and other variations thereof. It's not the formations.

* We have failed trying to pass the ball, we have failed playing long balls. It's not the length of our balls.

* We have failed with great team spirit, we have failed with poor team spirit. It's not the team spirit.

* We have failed playing a lot of youngsters, we have failed playing a lot of oldsters. It's not their age.

* We have failed trying to have a balance of young and experienced players. It's not the balance.

* We have failed when the side has been placed under great expectations, we have failed when there's been no expectations. It's not the level of expectation.

But something must be done!! Who can we blame? It seems as though blame must always be dished out. Surely there must be a big lever currently set on 'lose' which if only the idiots in charge could pull into 'win' mode.

No there isn't. All the shouty solutions offered by the press and media over the years have all been wrong. All the phone-in callers who seem to think that more 'passion' (aka running around a lot more) is the solution are braindead fools. For those who think if only we'd picked Ashley Cole, John Terry or anyone else, remember, we failed with them as well.

In coming weeks there will be calls for winter breaks, for less football to be played and for us to copy the systems of whichever team wins the World Cup and becomes briefly fashionable. Don't get fooled by any of it.

You can pick it apart for as long as you want. We can have another root and branch review. We can blame anyone we feel inclined to blame, but beware of false prophets who think they know the answer. You don't have the answer. No-one has the answer. There is no answer. England rightly makes nihilists of us all.