Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[ross matt]

There was none. Disappointing. Especially considering the venue. But like I said earlier... her visit/Obama's/the protests about it are all an overhyped waste of time.

[Eamonnca1]

Queen gives Ireland closest royals have come to apology for Britain's actions

Queen's speech refers to history of 'heartache and loss' as demonstrators held back from Dublin Castle

Stephen Bates and Henry McDonald
guardian.co.uk,    Wednesday 18 May 2011 21.34 BST


The Queen offered Ireland the nearest the royal family has ever come to an apology for Britain's actions in the tortured relations between the two countries, in a speech at a state banquet Dublin.

She told guests from the northern and southern Irish communities: "It is a sad and regrettable reality that through history our islands have experienced more than their fair share of heartache, turbulence and loss ... with the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things which we wish had been done differently, or not at all."

The remarks, at a dinner in Dublin Castle, the former headquarters of British rule in Ireland before independence in 1922, came as dissident republicans staged a small but violent demonstration.

The Queen spoke of the importance of forbearance and conciliation, "of being able to bow to the past but not to be bound by it" and she spoke of many who have suffered the painful legacy of loss. Lord Mountbatten, her husband's uncle, was killed by the IRA off the west coast of Ireland in August 1979.

She said: "To all those who have suffered as a consequence of our troubled past I extend my sincere thoughts and deep sympathy."

But she spoke also of increasingly strong bonds and values: "The lessons of the peace process are clear: whatever life throws at us, our individual responsibilities will be all the stronger for working together and sharing the load ... The ties of family, friends and affection are our most precious resource ... the lifeblood of partnership across these islands, a golden thread runs through all our joint successes so far and all we will go on to achieve."

Earlier, the Queen's reconciliation tour of the Irish Republic had continued its remarkable course when she visited Croke Park, the headquarters of Gaelic sport in Dublin.

Her Majesty visits many sports grounds despite showing no visible enthusiasm for team games and the 82,000 seater modern stadium can have differed little in her eyes from hundreds of others around the world, apart from the shape of its goal posts.

With its tiers of seating, advertisement boards and video screens it seems exactly the same: except for the fact that in a few minutes on Sunday 21 November 1920 British troops and Irish police fired into the crowd at a Gaelic football match between Tipperary and Dublin, killing 14 people, including one of the away team players, Michael Hogan.

The stadium has, of course, changed utterly, out of all recognition, since then. It was one of the worst incidents of the savage Irish war of independence, the fact that it was a retaliation for the IRA's assassination of British undercover agents earlier in the day no excuse and it has scarred Anglo-Irish relations for 90 years. So the Queen's emergence from the players' tunnel in the Michael Hogan stand represented a second gesture of reconciliation in two days, after her wreath-laying on Tuesday at the city's garden of remembrance, where those killed in the fight for independence from Britain are honoured.

Christy Cooney, the Gaelic Athletic Association's president welcomed her, referring briefly to "tragic events" in the two countries' history and the loss of lives "including those who died in this place".

He called the visit "an important underpinning and advance of the process which ... is now irreversible." Unspoken, but hanging heavy over proceedings, were thoughts of the young Northern Irish policeman — and Gaelic footballer — Ronan Kerr, murdered by the Real IRA in April: a previously unimaginable happening not least because members of the north's police were until recently banned from membership of the GAA.

Nevertheless, so tender are sensitivities that only one county GAA organisation from Ulster attended the Queen's visit.

Outside the stadium, well out of earshot, 40 members of Republican Sinn Féin, aligned to the Continuity IRA, protested against the attempt to normalise relations with Britain. Later, outside Dublin Castle, missiles and fireworks were fired at Garda lines by up to 200 dissident republican demonstrators. The protesters, from three dissident Republican organisations — Republican Sinn Féin, the 32 County Sovereignty Movement and the socialist Irish republican party Éirígí, confronted the Garda to the side of the city's Christ Church cathedral, several hundred yards away from the back of Dublin Castle where the state banquet was taking place. The Garda made 20 arrests.

In the morning, the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh, accompanied by the Irish president, Mary McAleese, had paid respects to more forgotten Irish casualties of the last century: the 49,400 who died fighting for Britain in the first world war. She laid a wreath at the memorial built only in the last few years to honour their memory.

Among those in attendance many of whom had come down from the North, was Jackie McDonald, a leader of the banned "loyalist" terrorist Ulster Defence Association, which killed 260 people during the Troubles. It was not clear whether the royal party realised he was present and there was no sign that the Queen recognised his presence.

Official representatives of Sinn Féin have been absent from this and other events, having asked not to be invited to meet the Queen, though Gerry Adams, the party's president, was seen briefly at the back of a demonstration against the visit.

The Queen – and journalists covering her trip – have been whisked through heavily policed streets nearly devoid of traffic and spectators. Those who turned up early outside the Guinness Storehouse visitor centre to catch a glimpse of the royal couple only managed a distant glimpse of the car.

Eamonn Murphy, 66, a former brewery worker, was philosophical about the security. "History is history," he told reporters. "It is always there but it is like every disagreement or row that people have, there is always a way back. In this case it has taken a very long time, but the mere fact that she did what she did yesterday has gone a long way to bury the past."

On a more mundane level of reconciliation, Iris Robinson, wife of the Northern Ireland first minister, Peter Robinson, was due to attend the state dinner with her husband, her first public appearance since revelations last year of her affair with a teenager.

That's close enough for me.

[Evil Genius]

Interesting that only 1 of the 9 Ulster counties accepted invitation, speaks volumes that those most affected decided not yet, this to me should be respected more than any other viewpoint.

From Christy Cooney's speech:

"The Gaelic Athletic Association for its part will continue to try and build new relationships and to reach out in particular to members of the Unionist community"

If we assume that Pres. Cooney is sincere, along with those GAA heads who were in attendance, how do the missing 5 NI (or 8 Ulster?) counties reconcile their absence with their Association's stated aim of reaching out to Unionists?

There is a significant mistrust of the GAA amongst Unionists, which I suspect GAA fans in Munster, Leinster & Connacht find hard to accept, or even understand. But one of the things I have learned from reading this Board is that not all GAA fans think or behave the same (I suppose I should have guessed).

Anyhow, if communication and bridge-building etc needs to be two-way in order to work, people need to be honest and admit that the current mistrust between Unionism and Ulster GAA is not all the fault of Tom Elliot or Nelson McCausland.

[Eamonnca1]

As you can see, EG, there are nuances. I'm from the north, grew up through the troubles, our family was affected. But I for one am ready to move on. Others less so. The people who snubbed the event aren't representative of the majority in the association. 

When it comes to voting on the likes of Rule 21 and Rule 42, the northern counties tend to take a more conservative line.  But having said that, there are people in the GAA in the north who are more progressive. The Ulster Council is arguably a lot more progressive than the counties that affiliate to it since they have been the driving force behind a lot of the cross-community initiatives like the Cu Chullain underage hurling teams and other unionist outreach endeavours.

You have to give credit where it's due.

[Evil Genius]

Interesting that only 1 of the 9 Ulster counties accepted invitation, speaks volumes that those most affected decided not yet, this to me should be respected more than any other viewpoint.

Oh, so Down wasn't affected by the troubles then? That business in Loughinisland didn't happen? Nobody was blown up in Warrenpoint?

Of course Down was affected by the Troubles, like every other county in Ireland.

But it seems to me that the reaction of Down GAA fans to such events is often more in accordance with the 23 counties of Munster, Leinster and Connacht, than the other 8 in Ulster. 

Are they to be blamed for that?

Edit: My comment is directed towards Sligonian, rather than Eammonca1

[Maguire01]

Does no-one think that (as is implied either on this thread or the thread in general discussion) the only reason for her visiting Croke Park is to issue an apology?

Whilst this is clearly a sensitive subject, is it not likely that she's going there to mark or apologise for what happened there?

can anyone tell me why she going to croker?

Could you take an educated guess?

You wouldimagne she will make some sort of statement when she goes to Croke park in terms of acknowledging Brithish wrongdoings in the past

Reagan - no visit to Croke Park.
Clinton - no visit to Croke Park.
JKF - nope.
Prince Rainier - nope.

Has it occurred to anyone why she might be going to Croke Park?

Some people are a bit slow on the uptake. I also suspect some people don't really want acknowledgement or apologies and would rather 'retain' a perceived 'moral high ground'.

And if the IRA are absolved simply by an apology, surely an apology by the Queen in Ireland will put an enter to your whataboutery?

So I heard the reports of her visit to croke Park, and I've read the text of her speech this evening. What happened this apology lads?

You're right - no apology. (And i'm sure you're happy there wasn't.)

Maybe the theme is just about 'moving on'... don't forget the past, but don't let it dictate the future.

[Nally Stand]

Jaysus Eamonn that is some condescending nonsense. Now those in the north who oppose the visit are just unable to move on and are not progressive?

And if a deliberate and careful avoidance of an apology in her speech is enough for you, well, what ever floats your boat.

[Evil Genius]

What is objectionable about British policy is that they are working to keep Ireland divided, and that is not acceptable.

They're doing no such thing. They can't wait to get rid of the place and they worked very hard to get the GFA in place as a pathway to Irish unity. Some people seem to think the Brits have the ability to just pull the plug and leave tomorrow but are refusing to do so out of spite. It doesn't work like that.

Under the GFA, the Brits can't "leave" until/unless a majority of voters in NI opt for a UI.

And as I've argued elsewhere (without, I think, any persuasive argument to the contrary), that is not likely to happen anytime soon.

That being so, if the Brits really can't wait etc, one might expect them to be taking steps in designed to ease/persuade/finagle NI's Unionists towards a UI.

What such steps can you point to, since I certainly cannot discern any from this side of the water, under this Government at least.

[Nally Stand]

Does no-one think that (as is implied either on this thread or the thread in general discussion) the only reason for her visiting Croke Park is to issue an apology?

Whilst this is clearly a sensitive subject, is it not likely that she's going there to mark or apologise for what happened there?

can anyone tell me why she going to croker?

Could you take an educated guess?

You wouldimagne she will make some sort of statement when she goes to Croke park in terms of acknowledging Brithish wrongdoings in the past

Reagan - no visit to Croke Park.
Clinton - no visit to Croke Park.
JKF - nope.
Prince Rainier - nope.

Has it occurred to anyone why she might be going to Croke Park?

Some people are a bit slow on the uptake. I also suspect some people don't really want acknowledgement or apologies and would rather 'retain' a perceived 'moral high ground'.

And if the IRA are absolved simply by an apology, surely an apology by the Queen in Ireland will put an enter to your whataboutery?

So I heard the reports of her visit to croke Park, and I've read the text of her speech this evening. What happened this apology lads?

You're right - no apology. (And i'm sure you're happy there wasn't.)

Maybe the theme is just about 'moving on'... don't forget the past, but don't let it dictate the future.

Repeating someone in particular there? Yes? There's a good sheep.

Oh, are you the same Maguire who said people were 'slow on the uptake' as to why she mite have been going specifically to croke park, and implied she would be going to make some sort of apology?

[andoireabu]

As you can see, EG, there are nuances. I'm from the north, grew up through the troubles, our family was affected. But I for one am ready to move on. Others less so. The people who snubbed the event aren't representative of the majority in the association. 

When it comes to voting on the likes of Rule 21 and Rule 42, the northern counties tend to take a more conservative line.  But having said that, there are people in the GAA in the north who are more progressive. The Ulster Council is arguably a lot more progressive than the counties that affiliate to it since they have been the driving force behind a lot of the cross-community initiatives like the c* Chullain underage hurling teams and other unionist outreach endeavours.

You have to give credit where it's due.

this line being rolled out is starting to rag me. its the new excuse for people having a different opinion to something.  so a few counties chose not to go down, so what?  they probably missed a big dinner and a few jars but the fact that our chairman didn't go and see the Queen of England isn't going to be the reason why children brought up in non-GAA houses don't join GAA clubs.  But the media will spin it up as will politicians and it will go round in circles again.  the real change is and will hopefully be made by grass roots people by simple things like asking their neighbours do their children want to try something new.  By asking primary schools who don't have GAA in their PE classes do they want to try something new.  Not by some gobshite sitting rubbing shoulders with other gobshites in Croke Park, eating a steak and smiling at the cameras.

Not having a go at you there Eamonn in case you thought I was

[Maguire01]

Repeating someone in particular there? Yes? There's a good sheep.

Oh, are you the same Maguire who said people were 'slow on the uptake' as to why she mite have been going specifically to croke park, and implied she would be going to make some sort of apology?

I'm a sheep? Why? Because I don't agree with you? If I agreed with you, would I not just be a different sheep? Does everyone have to have a unique opinion on everything?

And yes, I know what I said and you've conveniently posted the quotes. I'm happy to admit I was wrong. Not that I think it has changed the minds of anyone on either side of the argument.

[Evil Genius]

Interesting that only 1 of the 9 Ulster counties accepted invitation, speaks volumes that those most affected decided not yet, this to me should be respected more than any other viewpoint.

Oh, so Down wasn't affected by the troubles then? That business in Loughinisland didn't happen? Nobody was blown up in Warrenpoint?

Oh so there is no significance in the fact that five of the six counties refused to send representatives?

In the light of 5 NI counties deliberately snubbing their (i.e. Unionists') Monarch, Unionists in NI will feel vindicated in their belief that the GAA is not just a pro-Irish organisation, but is actually also an anti-British  organisation.

And as a consequence, many will go further and conclude that the GAA's stated aim of wanting to reach out to all Irish people is a sham (in Ulster, at least).

And with examples such as today's who can properly blame us?

[mylestheslasher]

Eamonn, do you seriously think that represents an apology! Her visit marked the anniversary of the worst atrocity of the troubles which many suspect her crown forces were involved in. This suspicion is increased by the fact that they won't hand over their files. I'm sorry but some waffle about historical hindsight is bullshit. I really don't know what the hell the purpose if this visit was except to waste another 30 million euro.

[ONeill]

The Queen of f**king England.

Who gives a shit? I've heard that line 'oh it's a sad day for Ireland and the GAA'. You ask them why. They say 'cos she's the Queen of England and 800 years and Bloody Sunday an all'.

Jesus lads, leave it to the politicians and those in the background and move on. The Queen now (or the King/Queen then) hasn't a clue about what military operations their nation's army are/were engaging in, not then, not now. For all we know she could be a fanatical supporter of the S Armagh Snipers' Organisation. This country has important political and economic dealings to be getting on with. Leave it to those we elected. The creation and development of the N-S bodies (and the unseen work regarding those) means we're actually a lot closer to the end goal than ever before. Harping on about the horrible symbolism of an old lady born into a family of dimwits visiting a piece of land where one of the hundreds of cold killings took place 90 years ago is pointless and close-minded. There's much more important work to be done.

When Alex Maskey laid a wreath to commemorate those who died in the British Army during WW1 (not long before Bloody Sunday) the sky didn't fall. When the Queen of England visited a place where her nation's forces killed Irishmen in retaliation for an earlier successful mission, the sky won't fall either. In two days' time you'll still be paying your bills, you'll still be lambasting Sludden and the ongoing work to better where we are today as republicans or nationalists will continue. The pseudo-republican stance of many up here is an empty one. Progressive republicans will pay this week's events no heed.

[Eamonnca1]

Now those in the north who oppose the visit are just unable to move on and are not progressive?

Yes. How else would you describe it?

And if a deliberate and careful avoidance of an apology in her speech is enough for you, well, what ever floats your boat.

An apology is a statement of regret.