Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[Hardy]

Imho the justification of Obama's visit is a no-brainer. You are the only one here demanding it's justification. I have heard no politician here oppose or even question it.

Joe Higgins had a question about it but he got no answer.   

From Oireachtas debates, March 11 2011:

Deputy Joe Higgins: How long will the visit last?
The Taoiseach: From that point of view, I was delighted he accepted Ireland's invitation to
come here.
An Ceann Comhairle: That completes Taoiseach's Questions for today.
Deputy Joe Higgins: How long will President Obama's visit last?
An Ceann Comhairle: Sorry Deputy, we are out of time.
Deputy Joe Higgins: Are we really?
An Ceann Comhairle: Perhaps I will allow the Deputy in on the Order of Business. I would
appreciate it if he would resume his seat.
Deputy Joe Higgins: Is it true that it will comprise a five hour photo opportunity?
An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.
Deputy Jerry Buttimer: There will be protests.
The Taoiseach: Certainly not

[Banana Man]

again you don't get it, you are now telling me what i thought when i asked a question - this gets crazier and crazier the more desparate you get!!!

I said how can the full use of the budget be justified, you have even highlighted my quote, (thanks for that), i stand over it, I did not oppose any visit depsite your pathetic attempts to claim otherwise, so don't tell me what i meant to say, the only man on earth that knows for definite what another man's thoughts are are that man himself

this continues to fall on deaf ears with you and you are either that stupid or arrogant you refuse to listen to that rationale.

i asked for the breakdown of these supposed benefits of tourism these visits offered not demanded. The fact is when the pope visited the UK he had to part fund the security costs, that could have been replicated when the 2 dignitaries in question head south but you fail to even recognise, that or you choose not too

Now i can't keep repeating this, either you get it by now or you don't, i think you got it a long time ago but in a thinly veiled attempt to save face you chose to divert and ride around in circles

Again more lies, when you say i am demanding justification for Obama's visit, where did i state that???, you still haven't proven it and contrinue to spout lies, you choose interpretation of your preconceived opinions on me rather than hard facts, i repeat you are a liar

[Hardy]

Ah lads.

[muppet]

again you don't get it, you are now telling me what i thought when i asked a question - this gets crazier and crazier the more desparate you get!!!

I said how can the full use of the budget be justified, you have even highlighted my quote, (thanks for that), i stand over it, I did not oppose any visit depsite your pathetic attempts to claim otherwise, so don't tell me what i meant to say, the only man on earth that knows for definite what another man's thoughts are are that man himself

this continues to fall on deaf ears with you and you are either that stupid or arrogant you refuse to listen to that rationale.

i asked for the breakdown of these supposed benefits of tourism these visits offered not demanded. The fact is when the pope visited the UK he had to part fund the security costs, that could have been replicated when the 2 dignitaries in question head south but you fail to even recognise, that or you choose not too

Now i can't keep repeating this, either you get it by now or you don't, i think you got it a long time ago but in a thinly veiled attempt to save face you chose to divert and ride around in circles

Again more lies, when you say i am demanding justification for Obama's visit, where did i state that???, you still haven't proven it and contrinue to spout lies, you choose interpretation of your preconceived opinions on me rather than hard facts, i repeat you are a liar

the entire Garda budget for the year will be used up next month with the state visit of Lizzy and Obama - How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???

Are you seriously now saying that you didn't demand justification for Obama's visit (having multiplied the cost by a factor of 50) having posted the above?

As for hard facts, you haven't posted as single link. I have posted links from people who plan to use the opportunity to use the opportunity to promote Ireland as a tourist destination on the back of the visits. I have posted links to museums and visitors centres in obscure places like Ballypooreen and Duncanstown, you rubbished these by comparing them with an Egyptian Museum in a massive city like London. I have posted a link to the Oireachtais site outlining the Garda budget and a link to an article which references the source of the complaint that you misquoted.  I have posted facts, you have posted nothing.

Your only reference is 'I heard on the radio.....'. Deiseach and Hardy tackled this directly, Abbeysider and myself just thought it was ludicrous. You never responded on this to any of them.

[Banana Man]

Ah lads.

sorry hardy i realise it's not nice for everyone else, believe me but it's a point of fact, muppet has tried to twist everything i have said and i can't let it go unchallenged

[Banana Man]

i didn't have an opportunity to respond directly, i was too busy dealing with your lies, which incidentially is taking up a lot of fruitless time as you just won't listen

Admit it - I did not say I opposed Obama as you claim, admit it's lies and we can move on - you still can't show exactly where I said i opposed the visit of ObamaIt's total lies and you can't prove it - you are still trying to deflect and dive into other areas, i'm not allowing myself to be taken down another cul-de-sac of shite you are typoing, admit i did not oppose Obama - you are totally in the wrong

[Evil Genius]

great post by Aoise - I fully agree with all of that, usual round the houses daft reply from evil myles though doesnt detract from its accuracy or personal opinion!

"Round the houses"?
I made a number of specific responses to the points she was trying to make, all backed up with links/sources/evidence. Your attempt to back her up might carry a shred of credibility if you had actually tried to respond in the same vein, rather than repeating your usual tack of "It's good/bad/whatever because I say it is".
Then again, seeing as you're the last poster on here who's still labouring under the delusion that I am also Myles naGopaleen, I'd be pretty surprised if you suddenly started to display judgement, reasoning or deduction etc in your posts.

There wont be any reunification while we have economic problems.

Seeing as the GFA has determined that it cannot happen until a majority of voters in NI agrees to it, the last realistic prospect of Irish unity disappeared completely along with the 20th Century.
The Republic's present economic crisis merely adds one more nail to the coffin. I don't know what age you are, but I'd be completely confident that it ain't gonna happen in your lifetime or mine.
In fact, rather than dreaming as you and Aoise do, that the Queen's visit is some sort of precursor to Irish unity etc, one might just as easily characterise it as final realisation and acceptance by the Republic that the Union of GB and NI, with Her Majesty as Head of State, is here to stay.
If so (and I personally wouldn't like to overstate its significance), then it is a welcome move in normalising relations between the two neighbouring countries (imo).

I dont actually care whether the queen comes or not

Really?
Despite the visit being some sort of first step towards softening us all up to the prospect of Irish unity etc?

Come off it – 'evidence' ....your persistently flawed sources and conjecture plus skewed opinion don't hold.

For evidence I quoted the Good Friday Agreement and the official NI Census Website, as well as referring to every election result this Century, plus the considered, expert opinion of Prof. Brendan O'Leary, speaking at a Sinn Fein Conference in New York.
Meanwhile, you and Aoise offered precisely nothing of that nature in evidence. .

You wont ever want to 'get it'  - its about the economy – if the economic situation was right, jobs were had for the peoples of the 6 counties outwith the civil service and jobs were abundant again for southern citizens, then only apathy would halt a reunification.

If it were only about the economy, then how do you explain this? The ROI economy roared ahead of the the NI economy (or at least appeared to!) in the 10 years leading up to 2009. Yet over the same period, the Nationalist share of the vote in successive elections in NI quite clearly stalled.
And now that the ROI economy is obviously in reverse, whilst the NI economy is being propped up to some extent by the link with GB, insofar as voters (both Unionist and Nationalist) are influenced over the constitutional question by economics*, if anything, the Nationalist share of the vote might be expected to recede.


* - Btw, I'm not sure they actually are, but if there should be movement, it isn't going to be in favour of Unity.

No I don't actually care whether the queen comes or not – a re-unification will happen irrespective of this.

Yet you and Aoise both contend that the Queen's Visit is designed to speed up the process towards unity. Don't you want it to happen as soon as possible?
Or does your own personal wellbeing* depend on keeping the border for another while yet? 

* - Job? Pension? Health Care? Education?

Glad to see you are admitting that there 'WILL' be a reunification, unionists like yourself have had to change the old mantra from 'never'  to  'not in my lifetime'

"Unionists like yourself"?
You have a childish and unconvincing habit of ascribing the views of others to individuals with whom you are debating.
For the record, I do not accept that there WILL be "reunification" [sic].
Nor have I ever claimed that a single Irish state will "never" come about.
I leave it to you and your arrogance to make cast-iron predictions regarding future events about which no-one can be certain.

Rather, my position is clear. Namely, since the GFA, I genuinely believe that the constitutional position of NI within the UK is now stronger than it has ever been - i.e. no more Constitutional claim by ROI; no agitation for unity in the USA and elsewhere; no continuing murder campaign by SF/IRA; plus the acceptance of the Union, enshrined in Treaty, by all the main political parties in Westminster.

Consequently the Union may only be broken by a majority vote within NI, with a decade or more of Polls showing no sign whatever of that being realised - and that's before  the ROI economy crumbled!

Further, I see no prospect of anything in the foreseeable future which is liable to change that. On the contrary, now that Catholics/Nationalists have got equal rights etc in NI, if anything, they might be more likely to stick with the status quo, rather than take their chance in a new and unknown settlement, with all the doubts and uncertainty (jobs, health, education etc) which that would bring.

And all of that  is to be reckoned with before  we seek the consent to unity of voters in the Republic... 

[Maguire01]

You wont ever want to 'get it'  - its about the economy – if the economic situation was right, jobs were had for the peoples of the 6 counties outwith the civil service and jobs were abundant again for southern citizens, then only apathy would halt a reunification.

Flipping that over, are you saying that nationalists would be happy to maintain partition if the economics made sense? Or are you saying that the unionist position isn't as principled and is 'easier bought'?

[muppet]

i didn't have an opportunity to respond directly, i was too busy dealing with your lies, which incidentially is taking up a lot of fruitless time as you just won't listen

Admit it - I did not say I opposed Obama as you claim, admit it's lies and we can move on - you still can't show exactly where I said i opposed the visit of ObamaIt's total lies and you can't prove it - you are still trying to deflect and dive into other areas, i'm not allowing myself to be taken down another cul-de-sac of shite you are typoing, admit i did not oppose Obama - you are totally in the wrong

In the context of you claim that it will cost €1.4bn:

"How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???"

"How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???"

"How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???"

I have re-read the above and concluded that I must have been completely mistaken. You are clearly a staunch supporter of the visit. How could I have thought otherwise?

Now c'mon and we'll pick up our toys or the other knackers here will nick them.

[Banana Man]

i didn't have an opportunity to respond directly, i was too busy dealing with your lies, which incidentially is taking up a lot of fruitless time as you just won't listen

Admit it - I did not say I opposed Obama as you claim, admit it's lies and we can move on - you still can't show exactly where I said i opposed the visit of ObamaIt's total lies and you can't prove it - you are still trying to deflect and dive into other areas, i'm not allowing myself to be taken down another cul-de-sac of shite you are typoing, admit i did not oppose Obama - you are totally in the wrong

In the context of you claim that it will cost €1.4bn:

"How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???"

"How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???"

"How the f**k in times of severe austerity can this be justified???"

I have re-read the above and concluded that I must have been completely mistaken. You are clearly a staunch supporter of the visit. How could I have thought otherwise?

Now c'mon and we'll pick up our toys or the other knackers here will nick them.

I will repeat I DID NOT OPPOSE ANY VISIT BY OBAMA - This is a muppet manufactured statement i.e. lies - I asked how the full use of the Garda budget can be justified, as in why can they not contribute or pay for the whole bill hence the above statement by me, the debate was never allowed to run it's natural course as previously stated

Now i think it's best for everyone it's left at that as we are not going to agree on this

[Hardy]

Now i think it's best for everyone it's left at that as we are not going to agree on this

Three days, one hour, twenty eight minutes and nine pages, but you got there in the end, fair play to you.

[ludermor]

And the winner is Muppet.

[Banana Man]

Now i think it's best for everyone it's left at that as we are not going to agree on this

Three days, one hour, twenty eight minutes and nine pages, but you got there in the end, fair play to you.

takes the bigger man Hardy and all that, just don't want to sicken everyone elses hole

[Banana Man]

And the winner is Muppet.

[thebigfella]

And the winner is Muppet.

+1