Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[stibhan]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

Deliberately so, in order to make a point. Republicans like Joe say there is a conflict because they don't have a united Ireland. In their analysis, the conflict will only end when there is a united Ireland. Yet that would leave a lot of unionists unhappy, so the 'conflict' would continue. Conflict doesn't end when republicans get what they want.

Why shouldn't republicans and unionists from the North be able to vote in Presidential elections, though? That would be a feasible and reasonable means of including all traditions on this island in a coherent democratic structure. It would, at least on a small scale, demonstrate the unity of the island's identity as well as including northern unionists. Partition left a lot of southern unionists unhappy as well, mind.

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

No, it would demonstrate that it was one island. The word 'country' isn't easily definable anyway, and voting rights won't change that. It's about including people who want to be included, and encouraging others to include themselves.

[MW]

Why shouldn't republicans and unionists from the North be able to vote in Presidential elections, though? That would be a feasible and reasonable means of including all traditions on this island in a coherent democratic structure. It would, at least on a small scale, demonstrate the unity of the island's identity as well as including northern unionists. Partition left a lot of southern unionists unhappy as well, mind.

Myles is right on what you say here. You're talking about creating an all-Ireland polity of some kind, and a trying to show that everyone in the island shares an identity, one that fits comfortably under the auspcies of the Republic of Ireland's president. Seems to me to be close to the constant attempts to alchemise the "President of Ireland", and the state more generally, into an all-island entity, even though the Ireland in question is the 26-county republic.

Linking an "island" identity to the (southern) Irish state is precisely why people like me wouldn't call themselves Irish. Other unionists do of course use the label Irish, but it's effectively using the same word for more than one concept.

[orangeman]

Owen Patterson in the crowd today in Croke Park.

The Queen could be in Croker at next year's AI final at this rate.


The GAA would do anything at the minute and principles that were set in stone are now gone.

[Maguire01]

Owen Patterson in the crowd today in Croke Park.

The Queen could be in Croker at next year's AI final at this rate.


The GAA would do anything at the minute and principles that were set in stone are now gone.

It's hard to get the balance right here. People are 'disgusted' that Nelson McCausland won't do his job, but are equally disgusted when others from 'the other side' turn up.

[orangeman]

Owen Patterson in the crowd today in Croke Park.

The Queen could be in Croker at next year's AI final at this rate.


The GAA would do anything at the minute and principles that were set in stone are now gone.

It's hard to get the balance right here. People are 'disgusted' that Nelson McCausland won't do his job, but are equally disgusted when others from 'the other side' turn up.

I'm not. That's his decison and his right. Fair play to him for sticking by his principles.

[Myles Na G.]

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

There is bigger resistance in the Dailto this than in Stormont.


I thought it looked stupid today watching a Down woman be paraded along by Coulter introducing the Down team to her and not one of them can vote for her.

Is she not from North Belfast?

[ziggysego]

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

There is bigger resistance in the Dailto this than in Stormont.


I thought it looked stupid today watching a Down woman be paraded along by Coulter introducing the Down team to her and not one of them can vote for her.

Is she not from North Belfast?

So she can stand in an election she can't vote in? OK....

[Nally Stand]

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

There is bigger resistance in the Dailto this than in Stormont.


I thought it looked stupid today watching a Down woman be paraded along by Coulter introducing the Down team to her and not one of them can vote for her.

Is she not from North Belfast?

So she can stand in an election she can't vote in? OK....

County Down I thought? Either way, the first President who is eligible to stand in an election she cant vote in. Partitionism: A disease rampant in Ireland.

[Farrandeelin]

Back to the original title of the thread, it appears that Castlebar Town council have invited her to the town.

[stibhan]

Why shouldn't republicans and unionists from the North be able to vote in Presidential elections, though? That would be a feasible and reasonable means of including all traditions on this island in a coherent democratic structure. It would, at least on a small scale, demonstrate the unity of the island's identity as well as including northern unionists. Partition left a lot of southern unionists unhappy as well, mind.

Myles is right on what you say here. You're talking about creating an all-Ireland polity of some kind, and a trying to show that everyone in the island shares an identity, one that fits comfortably under the auspcies of the Republic of Ireland's president. Seems to me to be close to the constant attempts to alchemise the "President of Ireland", and the state more generally, into an all-island entity, even though the Ireland in question is the 26-county republic.

Linking an "island" identity to the (southern) Irish state is precisely why people like me wouldn't call themselves Irish. Other unionists do of course use the label Irish, but it's effectively using the same word for more than one concept.

Yea, you're right. McAleese, the Irishwoman from the North who was voted in as President of Ireland, is linking the Irish identity to the Southern state. I for one welcome the day that a Northern Unionist and Protestant man or woman becomes president of 'the south', especially if it is done by all 32 counties of the island.

That wouldn't be considered a polity or anything by me, it would be considered a positive step towards reconciliation, and I have similar qualms about 'Irish' being used in a southern context but not a northern one. It's a misnomer to suggest that 'southerness' amounts to full 'Irishness' and 'Northern-ness' amounts to partial.

[Nally Stand]

Why shouldn't republicans and unionists from the North be able to vote in Presidential elections, though? That would be a feasible and reasonable means of including all traditions on this island in a coherent democratic structure. It would, at least on a small scale, demonstrate the unity of the island's identity as well as including northern unionists. Partition left a lot of southern unionists unhappy as well, mind.

Myles is right on what you say here. You're talking about creating an all-Ireland polity of some kind, and a trying to show that everyone in the island shares an identity, one that fits comfortably under the auspcies of the Republic of Ireland's president. Seems to me to be close to the constant attempts to alchemise the "President of Ireland", and the state more generally, into an all-island entity, even though the Ireland in question is the 26-county republic.

Linking an "island" identity to the (southern) Irish state is precisely why people like me wouldn't call themselves Irish. Other unionists do of course use the label Irish, but it's effectively using the same word for more than one concept.

Yea, you're right. McAleese, the Irishwoman from the North who was voted in as President of Ireland, is linking the Irish identity to the Southern state. I for one welcome the day that a Northern Unionist and Protestant man or woman becomes president of 'the south', especially if it is done by all 32 counties of the island.

That wouldn't be considered a polity or anything by me, it would be considered a positive step towards reconciliation, and I have similar qualms about 'Irish' being used in a southern context but not a northern one. It's a misnomer to suggest that 'southerness' amounts to full 'Irishness' and 'Northern-ness' amounts to partial.

Good points well made. Maith an fear

[Myles Na G.]

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

There is bigger resistance in the Dailto this than in Stormont.


I thought it looked stupid today watching a Down woman be paraded along by Coulter introducing the Down team to her and not one of them can vote for her.

Is she not from North Belfast?

So she can stand in an election she can't vote in? OK....

County Down I thought? Either way, the first President who is eligible to stand in an election she cant vote in. Partitionism: A disease rampant in Ireland.

Is Ardoyne not in Antrim?

[saffron sam2]

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

There is bigger resistance in the Dailto this than in Stormont.


I thought it looked stupid today watching a Down woman be paraded along by Coulter introducing the Down team to her and not one of them can vote for her.

Is she not from North Belfast?

So she can stand in an election she can't vote in? OK....

County Down I thought? Either way, the first President who is eligible to stand in an election she cant vote in. Partitionism: A disease rampant in Ireland.

Is Ardoyne not in Antrim?

It is yes, although Down is more than welcome to it.

Mrs McAleese is originally from north Belfast.

Myles has got something right at long, long last.

[Myles Na G.]

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

There is bigger resistance in the Dailto this than in Stormont.


I thought it looked stupid today watching a Down woman be paraded along by Coulter introducing the Down team to her and not one of them can vote for her.

Is she not from North Belfast?

So she can stand in an election she can't vote in? OK....

County Down I thought? Either way, the first President who is eligible to stand in an election she cant vote in. Partitionism: A disease rampant in Ireland.

Is Ardoyne not in Antrim?

It is yes, although Down is more than welcome to it.

Mrs McAleese is originally from north Belfast.

Myles has got something right at long, long last.

[Rossfan]

Is she not from North Belfast?

County Down I thought? [/quote]
Is Ardoyne not in Antrim?
[/quote]

It is yes, although Down is more than welcome to it.

Mrs McAleese is originally from north Belfast.

Myles has got something right at long, long last.
[/quote]

No matter where she come from herself she has made the excellent choice of returning to her father's roots in lovely north Roscommon when she retires from th'Aras.
And she will be staying among us for ever as she has the plot booked in that historic cemetery on the hillside just off the N4 .
A woman who nows where she really belongs is our Mary.
I wonder will she be at the County final on Sunday to see her neighbours take on the mighty Bridgets?