Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[Farrandeelin]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0628/1224273464332.html

interesting article.

Things would have been really bad under the Nazis. Social conditions would probably have gotten so bad that millions of Irish people would starve to death and millions more would have to leave these shores. The irish would have been reduced to a serf-like existence in their own country.

Yeah, that's mad isn't it. Oh wait...

[ardmhachaabu]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11210372

[Banana Man]

Well that's news to me, I musn't have been listening in class the day they taught Ireland won independence in 1921 - lazy journalism wouldn't begin to describe it 

[Aerlik]

aaaaah, we haven't "won" independence.  Part of our country is still illegally annexed by Britain.

[Banana Man]

I know whay you are saying Aerlik but I was referring to the point that Ireland was only declared a free state in 1921 and not independent, it was still owned by England - ill informed at best

[Tony Baloney]

aaaaah, we haven't "won" independence.  Part of our country is still illegally annexed by Britain.

How's the legal case coming along in Australia?

[Myles Na G.]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

[Franko]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

[muppet]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

I wonder how he feels about the sycophantic welcoming of the Pope to Britain. He must empathise with the die-hard irrational Paisley then?

[Myles Na G.]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

Deliberately so, in order to make a point. Republicans like Joe say there is a conflict because they don't have a united Ireland. In their analysis, the conflict will only end when there is a united Ireland. Yet that would leave a lot of unionists unhappy, so the 'conflict' would continue. Conflict doesn't end when republicans get what they want.

[Franko]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

Deliberately so, in order to make a point. Republicans like Joe say there is a conflict because they don't have a united Ireland. In their analysis, the conflict will only end when there is a united Ireland. Yet that would leave a lot of unionists unhappy, so the 'conflict' would continue. Conflict doesn't end when republicans get what they want.

Should that not read 'when nationalists get what we want'?? 

And how do you describe Fr. Joe as a 'republican' (remembering your description of a republican from a few days back) when his suggested methods for achieving a united Ireland (bold) would equate entirely with your own (going by your posts anyway).

[Myles Na G.]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

Deliberately so, in order to make a point. Republicans like Joe say there is a conflict because they don't have a united Ireland. In their analysis, the conflict will only end when there is a united Ireland. Yet that would leave a lot of unionists unhappy, so the 'conflict' would continue. Conflict doesn't end when republicans get what they want.

Should that not read 'when nationalists get what we want'?? 

And how do you describe Fr. Joe as a 'republican' (remembering your description of a republican from a few days back) when his suggested methods for achieving a united Ireland (bold) would equate entirely with your own (going by your posts anyway).

Nationalism and republicanism aren't the same thing, though there is an overlap on occasions.
And I'm not the only person in Ireland who thinks that Joe's a republican:
http://irishexaminer.ie/ireland/dissident-republicans-only-concerned-with-sinn-fein-130636.html

[stibhan]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

Deliberately so, in order to make a point. Republicans like Joe say there is a conflict because they don't have a united Ireland. In their analysis, the conflict will only end when there is a united Ireland. Yet that would leave a lot of unionists unhappy, so the 'conflict' would continue. Conflict doesn't end when republicans get what they want.

Why shouldn't republicans and unionists from the North be able to vote in Presidential elections, though? That would be a feasible and reasonable means of including all traditions on this island in a coherent democratic structure. It would, at least on a small scale, demonstrate the unity of the island's identity as well as including northern unionists. Partition left a lot of southern unionists unhappy as well, mind.

[Myles Na G.]

ALLOWING IRISH citizens living in Northern Ireland to vote in presidential elections would make a more meaningful contribution to achieving a united Ireland than a "sycophantic" welcoming of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin, Fr Joe McVeigh said yesterday.
"The creeping partitionism of recent years has to be stopped and reversed," said the Fermanagh born priest.

Speaking at the annual General Liam Lynch Commemoration in Fermoy, Co Cork Fr McVeigh said that instead of adopting such practical measures, political maturity in Ireland is measured "on how low we can prostrate ourselves before the current British monarch".
Anyone who objects to the proposed visit by Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin will be branded as "die-hard and irrational while those who bow and scrape will be praised for their political maturity" Fr McVeigh told the 200 or so strong gathering at Kilcrumper Cemetery.
Asked how Northern nationalists would view such a visit, Fr McVeigh said most will ignore it as they do when the queen visits the North but he counselled strongly against any "slavish and sickeningly sycophantic behaviour by the institutions of State"

Fr McVeigh said the 1922 Anglo-Irish Treaty and partition had led to the abandonment by Dublin of Irish nationalists in the six counties. However, the Good Friday agreement, despite its shortcomings, have given many people the hope that the conflict can be resolved through dialogue and that Irish unity can be achieved by "negotiation, political persuasion and political pressure and political mobilisation".
Fr McVeigh said dissident republicans opposed to the Good Friday agreement have no support among the mass of Northern nationalists and represent nobody but a rump of embittered individuals whose gripe is not with British imperialism but with the Sinn Féin leadership.
"It's as simple, as petty and as personal as that," he said.
The task for Irish republicans living in the real world is two-fold – to persuade Unionists that their best interests lie in a unified Ireland and perhaps the even greater challenge of persuading people in the 26 counties that their best interests lie in a united Ireland, he said.

© 2010 The Irish Times

Got that bit wrong, Fr Joe. The conflict has been resolved - no change until the people north and south vote for it. At the moment, the people don't want change so there won't be any. Where's the conflict?

Naivety in the extreme.

Deliberately so, in order to make a point. Republicans like Joe say there is a conflict because they don't have a united Ireland. In their analysis, the conflict will only end when there is a united Ireland. Yet that would leave a lot of unionists unhappy, so the 'conflict' would continue. Conflict doesn't end when republicans get what they want.

Why shouldn't republicans and unionists from the North be able to vote in Presidential elections, though? That would be a feasible and reasonable means of including all traditions on this island in a coherent democratic structure. It would, at least on a small scale, demonstrate the unity of the island's identity as well as including northern unionists. Partition left a lot of southern unionists unhappy as well, mind.

I think it's a great idea, but I can't see unionists buying into it for the very reason you identify, namely that it would demonstrate that Ireland is one country, not two.

[supersarsfields]

But at least the choice would be there for them. And over time more and more may wish to excerise that right. Then if there is a change in the future it may mean unionists may feel more involved in any process towards a united ireland. And that can't be a bad thing.