I am Pro-union

[eggy bread]

I hear Strangford Lough Ferry is very smooth.

[delboy]

If you think back to not only all the people who lost their lives, but who lost their land, their livelihood, their rights and their dignity since the time of plantation and yet if the current generation or the next generation made a smaller sacrifice such as their "free" healthcare just to reunify the country that our forefathers were stripped of, it would be a lovely tribute IMO.

You might see giving up the health service as a small sacrafice but thats not a view that would be shared by everyone, if you want to get into romance and sacrafice don't forget the health service was about giving something back to those who had fought for their country during the second world war, to give them a sense that their country had been worth fighting for and dying for (almost half a million including civilian deaths).
Not everybody would be willing to trample over that memory and legacy to embrace a much poorer system of healthcare, i surely wouldn't although TBH my own reasons would be much more pragmatic than some romantic notion about the memories of half a million odd people that died fighting the nazis.
Im more interested in the living, I want what is best for myself and my family and that includes the health service.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I've given this some serious thought over the past few months after having a heated discussion with a friend a month or two back. On that particular day I told him I didn't really see much point in the end of partition apart from for romantic reasons. He wasn't able to put forward many pragmatic reasons for the sake of his argument.

Now at the time I didn't give the issue much though,for I've a shocking habit of being contrary for the sake of it. But as I read more about the plight if our southern friends, I question more and more what exactly a fella like me would gain for it? Nationalism in the north is a quaint notion; I shudder and cringe on st patricks day when for some reason young 'nationalists' choose to celebrate our patron saint by donning their Celtic or Ireland jersey and carrying a tri-colour around with them. What's that all about? I'd say very few of them could provide compelling reasons why Ireland should be one again.  On a similar note the promotion of the Irish language in the north is is a complete farce and is only used for petty tribal political reasons. The whole idea of nationalism held by those of us in Northern Ireland is a sham, 99% ate nationalist in name only.

The whole thing has started to sicken me. I've more in common with British people than those cowards down south that sold us down the river and largely continue their ambivalence towards the plight of their so called countrymen above the border.

The thing that finally made the whole thing click for me was the approach of this world cup. I don't mind the fact that the republic didn't qualify and I'm looking forward to throwing my weight behind the English. This is in stark contrast to say 2002 when I found englands failure hilarious and couldn't get enough of Duffer and his merry band. It brought the whole thing home to roost: I no longer wish to consider myself Irish. It makes no sense anyway,being governed by the British and opting to carry around a Irish passport.

So no longer will I be one to cry when any Irish team suffers yet another glorious defeat in any code, no longer will I take an interest in the ramshackle Republic,no longer will I ignore the blatently obvious fact that I am a Brit.

So when 'Ireland' and England meet again in the Six (should tthat be seven?) Nations,I'll be getting behind Martin Johnsons boysand turning my back on decades of decades of cowardice shown by the Irish.

It's been nice enough but today I say goodbye Ireland,hello Britain.

Conor Cruise O'Brien's been on the sherry again.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

There seems to be an assumption on this thread that the reunited Ireland is going to be some sort of mirror image of the southern state. Like Mario, my Irish identity certainly isn't defined by southern attitudes nor should those attitudes be allowed to shape the new state.

The same could be said of Northern attitudes in a United Ireland.

[KT]

I see the health service as a small sacrifice because I work in it and I can see how it is failing today's society. As you point out, it was instigated sixty years ago but is now outdated and abused and there are much better systems in other countries.

By my reckoning, the unionist community has become just about as apathetic about maintaining the union as the nationalist community has become about achieving a united Ireland. Indeed at the height of the Celtic tiger, I believe many of them could have been persuaded quite easily. What I would like to see are all-Ireland parties that have the forsight to see that a united ireland is now achievable by democratic means. I would love to see them researching how to go forward with the economy in the country as a whole. Similarly, and this seems to be the crux of the northern nationalist's fears, a new health service could be devised, based on models from other countries since neither the northern or southern systems are effective. If the unionists (and apathetic nationalists) were to be assured of gains in uniting Ireland, it's achievable. There are definitely gains to be made, someone said they didn't want to be ruled from Dublin but we could be so much better off and saving money in a country so small with a single government, health and education service!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I always laugh when i hear this notion how southerners will not vote for a UI.
Anyone ive ever spoken to about the subject,which includes those from all classes,Solictors/Accountants to long term on unemploymed and of both majority christian religions in the state,Not one was against the idea of a UI,even with the notion of the financial costs to those in the 26 counties.
This may only be 20-30 people but would be a decent representation of different social classes which we have in this state.
There is a broad,you could say underlying nationalist feeling of almost a romantic nature throughout the 26 counties which yearns to reuinte with the fourth green field.
Dont let Kevin Myers/Ruth Dudley Edwards tell you anything differently.

Well said BhM be a person a plough and the stars 32 country romantic or reckon the 6 counties are just a pain in the hole, 95%+ I reckon will vote for a United Ireland, and many of the other 5% will be those nimrods who always feck up and spoil their vote.

Move the Capital to Athlone, Belfast, Cork or Galway, its somebody elses turn.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I always laugh when i hear this notion how southerners will not vote for a UI.
Anyone ive ever spoken to about the subject,which includes those from all classes,Solictors/Accountants to long term on unemploymed and of both majority christian religions in the state,Not one was against the idea of a UI,even with the notion of the financial costs to those in the 26 counties.
This may only be 20-30 people but would be a decent representation of different social classes which we have in this state.
There is a broad,you could say underlying nationalist feeling of almost a romantic nature throughout the 26 counties which yearns to reuinte with the fourth green field.
Dont let Kevin Myers/Ruth Dudley Edwards tell you anything differently.

Well said BhM be a person a plough and the stars 32 country romantic or reckon the 6 counties are just a pain in the hole, 95%+ I reckon will vote for a United Ireland, and many of the other 5% will be those nimrods who always feck up and spoil their vote.

Move the Capital to Athlone, Belfast, Cork or Galway, its somebody elses turn.

How could you even contemplate the Capital being in Galway, surely an anathema to a Mayo man! 

[delboy]

I see the health service as a small sacrifice because I work in it and I can see how it is failing today's society. As you point out, it was instigated sixty years ago but is now outdated and abused and there are much better systems in other countries.

By my reckoning, the unionist community has become just about as apathetic about maintaining the union as the nationalist community has become about achieving a united Ireland. Indeed at the height of the Celtic tiger, I believe many of them could have been persuaded quite easily. What I would like to see are all-Ireland parties that have the forsight to see that a united ireland is now achievable by democratic means. I would love to see them researching how to go forward with the economy in the country as a whole. Similarly, and this seems to be the crux of the northern nationalist's fears, a new health service could be devised, based on models from other countries since neither the northern or southern systems are effective. If the unionists (and apathetic nationalists) were to be assured of gains in uniting Ireland, it's achievable. There are definitely gains to be made, someone said they didn't want to be ruled from Dublin but we could be so much better off and saving money in a country so small with a single government, health and education service!

I don't accept that the health service is failing in the way you say it is, as a customer i think it does an excellent job and I don't think im alone in that thinking. IMO the main problem the health service suffers from is its portrayal by the modern media where everything has to be a scandal or a health scare (the journos have figured out that fear and outrage sell papers).
Its easy (and lazy) to come of with platitudes that standards are slipping, its worse than it used to be etc, and everybody seems to know someone who knows someone that had a horrible experience but if you actually ask people how their own experinence of the health service was its almost invariably positive (this is born out in lots of questionaires).
Im happy with the status quo i don't want to lose the jewel in the crown (health service) just for somebodys elses romantic ideals to be fulfilled.

I also see the line about unionists being happy to jump ship during the celtic boom years trotted out here quite often, tbh though i think this is nothing more than wishful thinking, i don't know a single person of a unionist background that thought like that. We may have looked southwards rather enviously at the  corporation tax rate but thats about it. Unionist may well be apathetic but then you could argue they can afford to be, lets face it there isn't going to be a UI anytime soon.

[Canalman]

Be under no illusion............ the 26 counties would vote heavily in favour of a UI. As I have posted here already the elephant in the parlour topic here is the % of Catholics up north who are Castle Catholics. Wouldn't be too sure the lads and lassies working for the state/local authorities / health boards etc up north would vote for a UI in a cliffedge referendum. Too much to lose.

Funnily enough I think 10/15% of Protestants would vote for a UI.

Hope I am wrong as it would be a great day to witness a UI.

[delboy]

Be under no illusion............ the 26 counties would vote heavily in favour of a UI. As I have posted here already the elephant in the parlour topic here is the % of Catholics up north who are Castle Catholics. Wouldn't be too sure the lads and lassies working for the state/local authorities / health boards etc up north would vote for a UI in a cliffedge referendum. Too much to lose.

Funnily enough I think 10/15% of Protestants would vote for a UI.

Hope I am wrong as it would be a great day to witness a UI.

I've thought the same about catholics involved in the public sector possibly voting to maintain the union and their own jobs etc (lets face it jobs would be lost on a massive scale). Although i will admit that this is pure speculation on my part, i'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people in that position.

I would find it surprising if 10/15 % of protestants would vote for a UI, i have to say i've not known a single protestant person that has said they favour a UI. If this it true across the board it would dash a lot of peoples hopes of having made inroads into convincing protestants to buy into the idea of a UI, I can only say thats a true and honest reflection of my experience from the protestant community. 

[ONeill]

Do you go around asking them?

I know a few Protestant Irish Republicans, albeit older generation, who would tick that box OK.

[delboy]

Do you go around asking them?

I know a few Protestant Irish Republicans, albeit older generation, who would tick that box OK.

Do you mean do i stop random strangers in the street and ask them are you protestant and if they are do they support a UI, of course not.
Have i discussed politics with those in my community, most certainly, i don't know how many people the average person interacts with closely over the course of 30 odd years, several hundreds i would guess, all i can say is i have never came across a single one in favor of a UI.

In much the same way though as yourself (albeit for republican-protestants) i have known a number of catholics that were pro-union, i can only speculate that as a protestant i am much more likely to come into contact with pro-union catholics, and that in turn as a republican protestants you interact with are more likely to support a UI, i can only reiterate however that i have never came across one and I'll also add that i live and move in what would be seen as moderate protestant/unionist circles if you like.

[ONeill]

Fair enough.

To be honest I haven't spoken to a Protestant in a couple of years now.

[magickingdom]

Be under no illusion............ the 26 counties would vote heavily in favour of a UI. As I have posted here already the elephant in the parlour topic here is the % of Catholics up north who are Castle Catholics. Wouldn't be too sure the lads and lassies working for the state/local authorities / health boards etc up north would vote for a UI in a cliffedge referendum. Too much to lose.

Funnily enough I think 10/15% of Protestants would vote for a UI.

Hope I am wrong as it would be a great day to witness a UI.

I've thought the same about catholics involved in the public sector possibly voting to maintain the union and their own jobs etc (lets face it jobs would be lost on a massive scale). Although i will admit that this is pure speculation on my part, i'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people in that position.

I would find it surprising if 10/15 % of protestants would vote for a UI, i have to say i've not known a single protestant person that has said they favour a UI. If this it true across the board it would dash a lot of peoples hopes of having made inroads into convincing protestants to buy into the idea of a UI, I can only say thats a true and honest reflection of my experience from the protestant community.

delboy, i always find your posts fair and interesting but i cant believe you have never met one protestant in favour of a ui. not even one? theres always one....

[Myles Na G.]

Be under no illusion............ the 26 counties would vote heavily in favour of a UI. As I have posted here already the elephant in the parlour topic here is the % of Catholics up north who are Castle Catholics. Wouldn't be too sure the lads and lassies working for the state/local authorities / health boards etc up north would vote for a UI in a cliffedge referendum. Too much to lose.

Funnily enough I think 10/15% of Protestants would vote for a UI.

Hope I am wrong as it would be a great day to witness a UI.

I've thought the same about catholics involved in the public sector possibly voting to maintain the union and their own jobs etc (lets face it jobs would be lost on a massive scale). Although i will admit that this is pure speculation on my part, i'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people in that position.

I would find it surprising if 10/15 % of protestants would vote for a UI, i have to say i've not known a single protestant person that has said they favour a UI. If this it true across the board it would dash a lot of peoples hopes of having made inroads into convincing protestants to buy into the idea of a UI, I can only say thats a true and honest reflection of my experience from the protestant community.

As someone working in the public sector in the north, having paid into a pension for a lot of years, I'd want to know what the cost was going to be of a UI.