I am Pro-union

[bennydorano]

Barring the word re-unification, I am at a loss to see the similarities?

There was and still is resentment in the old West Germany at the subsidies that had to be paid to the East after re-unification. If anything I'd say the Southern Irish sentiment regarding unification would be better than  Germany's was in 1990.

There would be similar problems such as two different currencies and the very high amount of people employed in the public sector in the North. This would inevitably mean that the new Government would have to pick up the tab for that which would almost certainly mean higher taxes for those in the south.

Another similarity is the opposition of Britain. Thatcher was against the re-unification of Germany.

Dubious analogies as Germany integrated EG, there was no need for the creation of a new state.  Germany didn't have to contend with a couple of million malcontents who didn't want unification, didn't view themselves as German, would shoot and bomb if they didn't get their way.

Who'll be subsidising who in the new UI thou? The UK would have to throw an awful pile of money at unification for it to stand a chance.  There seems to be an automatic assumption that ROI will be the daddy of this new UI?

[muppet]

Barring the word re-unification, I am at a loss to see the similarities?

There was and still is resentment in the old West Germany at the subsidies that had to be paid to the East after re-unification. If anything I'd say the Southern Irish sentiment regarding unification would be better than  Germany's was in 1990.

There would be similar problems such as two different currencies and the very high amount of people employed in the public sector in the North. This would inevitably mean that the new Government would have to pick up the tab for that which would almost certainly mean higher taxes for those in the south.

Another similarity is the opposition of Britain. Thatcher was against the re-unification of Germany.

Dubious analogies as Germany integrated EG, there was no need for the creation of a new state.  Germany didn't have to contend with a couple of million malcontents who didn't want unification, didn't view themselves as German, would shoot and bomb if they didn't get their way.

Who'll be subsidising who in the new UI thou? The UK would have to throw an awful pile of money at unification for it to stand a chance.  There seems to be an automatic assumption that ROI will be the daddy of this new UI?

Are you joking. A State with 3 times the population integrates with a province and you think the State won't be the major party?

[Nally Stand]

I'd also be extremely dubious as to whether or not a UI would be passed into law north or south of the border.   In the event of any such proposition being put to the electorate Mexicans will be confronted with wholesale structural changes, I'd imagine they'd pretty much think they'll just integrate NI into the ROI, but for this to be acceptable to Unionism (and me) it will have to be the creation of whole new state - emblems, symbolism and all, that's where the real sticking points will be. 

Bottom line is Will southerners give up their country for the creation of a new one?? Because that's what the minimum asking price will be.

A Confederation of the 2 regions would be the obvious solution with the Dáil and Assembly looking after day to day matters within their own areas and the Confederacy looking after the bigger issues.
That way the 26 Cos could have it's own particular ways,keeping the Tricolour,A na bhF, bi lingual road signs  etc and the 6 Cos could have theirs, trilingual signs, a bland flag etc. 6 Co Residents would have the right to British citizenship/passports on application to the British Government.
Meanwhile the confederacy would have its own agreed  bland flag/Anthem etc

Same only different then?  Sort of defeats the purpose of unification.

Agrees. The idea also strikes of "Irish Unification/Freedom = a great idea on the condition that it doesn't adversly effect the 26 counties in any way what-so-ever, but who gives a fcuk about the north."

Get the chip off the shoulder and try and read what I said. That oul bolox is certainly not making 26 Co folks warm to the idea of having anything to do with ye.
There will NOT be a takeover of the 6 by the present 26. An All Ireland entity will not have the Tricolour and A na bhFiann as its flag and anthem.
Unionists or whatever they will be called will want some connection with GB or some recognition of their (perceived by themselves which is what counts) "Britishness".
We dont want a repeat of the 1922-72 majority tyranny that existed in the 6 Cos repeated in an All Ireland situation only with us being the tyrants.
If Switzerland with 3 different groups and 22 Federal districts can work very successfully surely we can make a go of a 2 Region Confederation.

We also do not want a repeat of the scourge of partition so if you think the 26 should be run by the Dail and the 6 by the assembly, and they should have different flags, different emblems, different anthems, why not just call that what it is? PARTITION. And as for "that aul bollix not making the folks of the 26 want anything to do with us" that would be enough to turn my stomach. Would be enough to make ya want nothing to do with the free state! Thankfully the achievement of a United Ireland doesn't depend on whether people in the south feel like "putting up with us"

[Kerry Mike]

Anyone here mind if Queen Liz visits Killarney and we give her a wee jaunt about the lakes in one of our new self-cleaning shit-collecting jaunting cars, I'm sure she is partial to a biteen of a smell off a bag of horse shit . 

Imagine the Jarvey who gets the ride off her, sorry I meant who gives her a jaunt and the old nag shits in his bag, it will be worth a fortune on Ebay.

It will give a great boost to the local ecomomy and help to fill up some of the empty hotels around the Kingdom.  Not sure if we have room for every skanger from Dublin and beyond in a Celtic jersey but hopefully they will have a rummage about at home and dig out the auld union jack flags their grandparents and great grandparents waved at the last Queen to visit these shores over a hundred years ago. Maybe even yer man below might do up a new sign... No to Foreign Queens or something of the like



Jackie Healy Rae, Paidi O'Se and King Puck will be on the welcoming committee and if she times it well she might even meet Mr Maguire if he is in Kerry for his travels.

Exciting times ahead in the Kingdom and its well past April 1st....

[bennydorano]

Barring the word re-unification, I am at a loss to see the similarities?

There was and still is resentment in the old West Germany at the subsidies that had to be paid to the East after re-unification. If anything I'd say the Southern Irish sentiment regarding unification would be better than  Germany's was in 1990.

There would be similar problems such as two different currencies and the very high amount of people employed in the public sector in the North. This would inevitably mean that the new Government would have to pick up the tab for that which would almost certainly mean higher taxes for those in the south.

Another similarity is the opposition of Britain. Thatcher was against the re-unification of Germany.

Dubious analogies as Germany integrated EG, there was no need for the creation of a new state.  Germany didn't have to contend with a couple of million malcontents who didn't want unification, didn't view themselves as German, would shoot and bomb if they didn't get their way.

Who'll be subsidising who in the new UI thou? The UK would have to throw an awful pile of money at unification for it to stand a chance.  There seems to be an automatic assumption that ROI will be the daddy of this new UI?

Are you joking. A State with 3 times the population integrates with a province and you think the State won't be the major party?

It will be about the creation of a 'new Ireland of equals' not the south integrating the north.  If the UK (and probably EU & US money) bankrolls the unification there will be no need for a 'daddy'. 

If people sit down and actually think about what they will be asked to give up support for a UI would disappear.  New Political parties, political institutions, judicial system, health, taxes, pensions etc..

[Nally Stand]

Countless gave their lives for a free united Ireland. I'd gladly sacrafice a few luxuries. I'd be insulting their memory if I didn't.

[Never beat the deeler]

Anyone here mind if Queen Liz visits Killarney and we give her a wee jaunt about the lakes in one of our new self-cleaning shit-collecting jaunting cars, I'm sure she is partial to a biteen of a smell off a bag of horse shit . 

Imagine the Jarvey who gets the ride off her, sorry I meant who gives her a jaunt and the old nag shits in his bag, it will be worth a fortune on Ebay.

It will give a great boost to the local ecomomy and help to fill up some of the empty hotels around the Kingdom.  Not sure if we have room for every skanger from Dublin and beyond in a Celtic jersey but hopefully they will have a rummage about at home and dig out the auld union jack flags their grandparents and great grandparents waved at the last Queen to visit these shores over a hundred years ago. Maybe even yer man below might do up a new sign... No to Foreign Queens or something of the like



Jackie Healy Rae, Paidi O'Se and King Puck will be on the welcoming committee and if she times it well she might even meet Mr Maguire if he is in Kerry for his travels.

Exciting times ahead in the Kingdom and its well past April 1st....

He could change the Celtic shirt for a Freddy Mercury one

[Myles Na G.]

I'd also be extremely dubious as to whether or not a UI would be passed into law north or south of the border.   In the event of any such proposition being put to the electorate Mexicans will be confronted with wholesale structural changes, I'd imagine they'd pretty much think they'll just integrate NI into the ROI, but for this to be acceptable to Unionism (and me) it will have to be the creation of whole new state - emblems, symbolism and all, that's where the real sticking points will be. 

Bottom line is Will southerners give up their country for the creation of a new one?? Because that's what the minimum asking price will be.

A Confederation of the 2 regions would be the obvious solution with the Dáil and Assembly looking after day to day matters within their own areas and the Confederacy looking after the bigger issues.
That way the 26 Cos could have it's own particular ways,keeping the Tricolour,A na bhF, bi lingual road signs  etc and the 6 Cos could have theirs, trilingual signs, a bland flag etc. 6 Co Residents would have the right to British citizenship/passports on application to the British Government.
Meanwhile the confederacy would have its own agreed  bland flag/Anthem etc

Same only different then?  Sort of defeats the purpose of unification.

Agrees. The idea also strikes of "Irish Unification/Freedom = a great idea on the condition that it doesn't adversly effect the 26 counties in any way what-so-ever, but who gives a fcuk about the north."

Get the chip off the shoulder and try and read what I said. That oul bolox is certainly not making 26 Co folks warm to the idea of having anything to do with ye.
There will NOT be a takeover of the 6 by the present 26. An All Ireland entity will not have the Tricolour and A na bhFiann as its flag and anthem.
Unionists or whatever they will be called will want some connection with GB or some recognition of their (perceived by themselves which is what counts) "Britishness".
We dont want a repeat of the 1922-72 majority tyranny that existed in the 6 Cos repeated in an All Ireland situation only with us being the tyrants.
If Switzerland with 3 different groups and 22 Federal districts can work very successfully surely we can make a go of a 2 Region Confederation.

Northern unionists would accept an all Ireland parliament in Dublin before they'd accept a confederate solution. Why would they want a northern assembly which would in all likelihood be dominated by the Shinners? Much better for them to hold the balance of power in a Dublin set up (not that they're going to accept that either in the next 30 odd years).

[Myles Na G.]

Countless gave their lives for a free united Ireland. I'd gladly sacrafice a few luxuries. I'd be insulting their memory if I didn't.

Countless murdered for a united Ireland too. Grow up, ffs.

[Maguire01]

Countless gave their lives for a free united Ireland. I'd gladly sacrafice a few luxuries. I'd be insulting their memory if I didn't.

would you be prepared to sacrifice a few family members if a move to unify started up the trouble again?

[delboy]

Be under no illusion............ the 26 counties would vote heavily in favour of a UI. As I have posted here already the elephant in the parlour topic here is the % of Catholics up north who are Castle Catholics. Wouldn't be too sure the lads and lassies working for the state/local authorities / health boards etc up north would vote for a UI in a cliffedge referendum. Too much to lose.

Funnily enough I think 10/15% of Protestants would vote for a UI.

Hope I am wrong as it would be a great day to witness a UI.

I've thought the same about catholics involved in the public sector possibly voting to maintain the union and their own jobs etc (lets face it jobs would be lost on a massive scale). Although i will admit that this is pure speculation on my part, i'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people in that position.

I would find it surprising if 10/15 % of protestants would vote for a UI, i have to say i've not known a single protestant person that has said they favour a UI. If this it true across the board it would dash a lot of peoples hopes of having made inroads into convincing protestants to buy into the idea of a UI, I can only say thats a true and honest reflection of my experience from the protestant community.

delboy, i always find your posts fair and interesting but i cant believe you have never met one protestant in favour of a ui. not even one? theres always one....

I know it might seem like im yanking your chain with the 'not a single one' comment, but really i've had a good long hard think to see if i ever remember anyone being in favour of a UI and the answer is still no. To be honest my own feelings on the issue are probably amongst the most relaxed that i've come across.
If pensions, jobs and health service etc could all be maintained and i was allowed to retain a british identity (in much the same way that republicans in the north can now) then i wouldn't be apposed to it, wouldn't necessarily be in favour but i wouldn't appose it.

[saffron sam2]

Anyone here mind if Queen Liz visits Killarney and we give her a wee jaunt about the lakes in one of our new self-cleaning shit-collecting jaunting cars, I'm sure she is partial to a biteen of a smell off a bag of horse shit . 

Imagine the Jarvey who gets the ride off her, sorry I meant who gives her a jaunt and the old nag shits in his bag, it will be worth a fortune on Ebay.

A fair chance the pony that's hauling the jaunting car may shit in the bag too, although this is unlikely to be worth as much on ebay.

[delboy]

Northern unionists would accept an all Ireland parliament in Dublin before they'd accept a confederate solution. Why would they want a northern assembly which would in all likelihood be dominated by the Shinners? Much better for them to hold the balance of power in a Dublin set up (not that they're going to accept that either in the next 30 odd years).

In 30 odd years time if the shinners have the whip hand will they be willing to cede all that power and influence to dublin, never easy going from being the big fish in the little pond to the little fish in the big one.

[thejuice]

Ian Mór was down looking around the Dáil yesterday so you never know, he might have been doing a scouting mission, checking where all the comfy seats are.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Countless gave their lives for a free united Ireland. I'd gladly sacrafice a few luxuries. I'd be insulting their memory if I didn't.

Countless more gave their lives for Hitler's Third Reich.  I doubt many worry about insulting their memory.

Measuring how many gave their lives for a cause is hardly the ideal metric.

/Jim.