Muineachán V Ard Mhaca USFC

[pearseog]

Yes main i am a clansman

on the issue of Dyas i am going to make this my last post as i don't want to come across as slating the lad.

My original point of this debate centred on the fact that there are 7-8 players in Armagh that would do a better job than some of the lads on the current panel. There are footballers in Armagh that have footballing talent but are not neccessarily big men and they are being overlooked because they don't fit into the Armagh machine that has existed in the last decade.

I am a firm believer that players must prove themselves, they shouldn't be selected on name, reputation or events that have occured maybe 5 or 6 years ago. There have been players on the Armagh squad that have been brought in on these pretences. If i were running a county team i would select the players who are performing at present irregardless of size or any other factor. Players should have to prove themselves and if they are doing a job for theri club they should get a chance at county level.

Part of the problem within Armagh is that the county players don't get enough club football. There are teams that are going without county players for two to three week stretches and this is unacceptable. Other counties are having county players playing for their clubs 4 or 5 nights prior to championship games. Sure you run the risk of injury but that is the chance you take. At the same time all players are getting proper game time and the overall standard is increasing. I stick by my criticism of the selection processes in Armagh.

I've been informed that Dyas actually was on the panel and made his championship debut against Derry in 2007 before he went to Australia.

You make many sweeping statements about the standard of the current Armagh squad. Care to back up your argument with specifics?

Who are the 7-8 players in the county that should be on the panel? And who are the current Armagh squad members who are not there on merit that should be replaced?

dunno about 7 or 8 player but POR should be at Michael o Rourkes house every night begging him back! id slot him straight into the half forward line ahead of mackin! a half-forward who can score..a rare species round these parts!!

[Sandy Hill]

Spoke to a panelist yesterday...

He said Training was great in pre-season and the winter.

But since then McGurn didn't know much about gaelic football at all and there was too far much emphasis on physical training, wrestling, physical drills, tackle bags and not enough running, skill work or football based stuff for championship football.

I was told by an "insider" before Sunday's debacle that there is absolutely no coaching taking place in the Armagh camp this year; surely not the ideal situation?

[Jinxy]

I don't think Armagh are particularly big and bulky.
They're just slow.
Man for man, I'd say Cork are a much bigger side and they're like racehorses compared to Armagh.

[lawnseed]

aussie rules players are far more muscled than the heaviest players we have and come the autumn you'll see them run our lads off the pitch. i'm tempted to have a go at armaghs crappy form last sunday, arron kernan etc blah blah... truth is they're not good enough. if the 2000 to 2004 team got a couple of months trainen they'd stuff them. our season is over. if we get anybody better than derry in the back door we're fukd. i think pat spillane once coined the phrase "lack of intestinal fortitude" once rory woods appeared the you know what ran down their legs..  . as for POR lets not mistake his lack of passion for anything other than what it actually was did you ever see the donkey inside homer simpsons head? well there you have it. the lights are on but there nobody home

[Orior]

Spoke to a panelist yesterday...

He said Training was great in pre-season and the winter.

But since then McGurn didn't know much about gaelic football at all and there was too far much emphasis on physical training, wrestling, physical drills, tackle bags and not enough running, skill work or football based stuff for championship football.

I was told by an "insider" before Sunday's debacle that there is absolutely no coaching taking place in the Armagh camp this year; surely not the ideal situation?

What is McGurns background/pedigree?

[omagh_gael]

He was definately involved with the Irish international rugby team for quite a few years and I think, could be wrong, before that was involved with ulster rugby? Other than that I'm not too sure.

[lawnseed]

mcgurns a rugby coach. nuff said. incidently the guy whos managing the armagh ladies is a soccer coach who had to be told that in gaa footy you have 5 subs not 3. we're well blessed. also how many county secretaries tog out and are in the dugout at championship matches? i'd say the sight of him waddling about was enough to rid any notion of patriotism out of paul grimleys head. any one see how well louth played under martin mcquillan played. we cant see the wood for the trees

[Armaghtothebone]

Was massvely disappointed on Sunday, but in fairness not really surprised.
We had 2 forwards who can take a score and one of them was making his senior count debut.
These are indeed difficult times for us but a bit of realism please. Monaghan are decent side who in any other era would have won at least 1 possibly more Anglo Celts.
Until we can find at least 2 more scoring forwards we will struggle against any top 8/12 team. 

[lawnseed]

alot of these players already have underage all irl-medals i think we've a right to expect a wee bit more

[Down South]

Until we can find at least 2 more scoring forwards we will struggle against any top 8/12 team.

And another forward to replace McDonnell. 

[Apple Crumble]

aussie rules players are far more muscled than the heaviest players we have and come the autumn you'll see them run our lads off the pitch. i'm tempted to have a go at armaghs crappy form last sunday, arron kernan etc blah blah... truth is they're not good enough. if the 2000 to 2004 team got a couple of months trainen they'd stuff them. our season is over. if we get anybody better than derry in the back door we're fukd. i think pat spillane once coined the phrase "lack of intestinal fortitude" once rory woods appeared the you know what ran down their legs..  . as for POR lets not mistake his lack of passion for anything other than what it actually was did you ever see the donkey inside homer simpsons head? well there you have it. the lights are on but there nobody home

Harsh.

[guevara]

I don't think Armagh are particularly big and bulky.
They're just slow.
Man for man, I'd say Cork are a much bigger side and they're like racehorses compared to Armagh.

Good point......from observing last years AIF Cork are probably the biggest team in the Country alongside Kildare & Armagh but unlike the latter two Cork have guys who are brilliant footballers throughout their team. They impose their games on teams physically by winning the midfield  area & then allow their talented footballers like Miskella, Kerrigan, O'Neill & Donnacha O'Connor to get them their scores. Armagh simply dont have enough in their ranks in my opinion to be on the same level as Cork

As mentioned Cork have big guys but they can also shift when they are required to carry the ball & take a score. Armagh simply dont have enough players who can do that.
Cork are by no means the mould which teams should aim to copy as Kerry hammered them when it counted. But I just find it incredible that so many so called Armagh fans can take the handy option & blame O'Rourke & McGurn or the fact that Monaghan snapped up Paul Grimley. Waken up lads.....it was a reality check yes! But by no means was Sundays game a true reflection of this current Armagh panels ability. Miracles arent gonna happen over night & yes like every manager O'Rourke may get things wrong. But he can only work with whats available to him & try and get the best out of them fellas.

Its sometimes hard to admit but in my eyes Armagh just dont have enough good footballers to have any success in this years Championship

[StGallsGAA]

I have it on very good authority that 2 respected figures in Armagh one of whom is an ex-player have since last Sunday sounded out PG about the possibility of taking the reins for next year should the current set-up fail to achieve it's stated target.  He has not ruled it out.

You heard it here first!

[Down South]

I have it on vert good authority that 2 respected figures in Armagh one of whom is an ex-player have since last Sunday sounded out PG about the possibility of taking the reins for next year should the current set-up fail to achieve it's stated target.  He has not ruled it out.

You heard it here first!

What is the current managements "stated target"?

[Throw ball]

mcgurns a rugby coach. nuff said. incidently the guy whos managing the armagh ladies is a soccer coach who had to be told that in gaa footy you have 5 subs not 3. we're well blessed. also how many county secretaries tog out and are in the dugout at championship matches? i'd say the sight of him waddling about was enough to rid any notion of patriotism out of paul grimleys head. any one see how well louth played under martin mcquillan played. we cant see the wood for the trees

Peter McDonnell has also been helping Louth and Armagh supporters did not give him too much credit in the last couple of years. Armagh have made progress this year. Management have made mistakes and so have players. If they learn from these mistakes we will get better. It will be a couple of years for things to change from the old style.
As for the criticism of McGurn I do not know where people are coming from. His job was to get people fit. Well they are so much fitter than last year it is incredible. I believe it is up to other people within the management to do the football coaching. John McCloskey did not have much of a gaelic background and Armagh did ok with him as fitness coach. Also the idea that Armagh are this big physical team is also a load of rubbish. Their players are about the same as most other teams and much smaller than Kildare, Meath Kerry or Cork for example. We do not have as many of the big physical players of the previous era and many of our minors coming through are on the smaller side.