Ard Mhacha v An Dún - Cluiche Ceannais Rionn 2 - Pairc an Chrócaigh 25/4/10

[RealSpiritof98]

threat he provided, the preoccupation the Down defenders had of his movements.

When Armagh were tearing themselves apart over a replacement for Peter McDonnell, Steven McDonnell who was one of those brave enough to make the leap of faith across the border into Down and support the case for Paddy O’Rourke. He played here as if he had part ownership of that decision.

He's in better physical condition now and I must give that credit to Mike McGurn," acknowledged O'Rourke afterwards. "He's looked carefully at Stevie's training. He might not always be asked to do what a 20-year-old is doing but we tried to keep him fresh and get him ready for games."

It's a well known fact that after Grimley refused to take the post, it was McDonnell who pursued and then championed the appointment of Paddy O'Rouke, so the need to lead is a natural human reaction.

But it is a little known fact that although Armagh were famous for their weightlifting and mad Gym sessions during the noughties McDonnell largely ignored these, that is until this year, he started training before the squad even got back together and even just 4 weeks ago I heard he was still a level ahead of the rest of the panel as regards to the plan for the coming year. 

Was it just me or was the Referee for the Armagh game very whistle happy when it came to contact, it seemed to be any player who lost their footing got a free, some great shoulder to shoulder hits got punished, any player surrounded got a free. This was in contrast to Paudie Hughes' interpretation in the Div 1 which seemed to allow for a more physical encounter. We dont want our manly game evolving into outdoor Basketball.

[mackers]

Who is then?

My own preference would be Brian Mallon and if not him then Swift. I think you need a player there with some directness about them. Kernan holds on to the ball too long and allows defenders to funnell back. Id sooner see his brother playing there and thats saying something.

Fair enough, it seems you're not alone with this opinion. Though I'd wonder is this quick, direct ball a bit overrated. We've been using it for years and while it work back around 2002, success has dried up in recent times. Perhaps more measured, possession football is a better route to go down. It doesn't seem to have done us any harm so far this year, and McDonnell's form wouldn't suggest he has suffered through lack of ball. I'd be of the opinion that Kernan is playing an important role in this new system. In previous times the player in his position would have been under orders to release the ball into the FF line as quickly as possible, which resulted in a lot of shit 50/50 balls being thrown on top of Clarke in particular. Kernan seems to have more licence to take his time and make sure the ball is retained first and foremost, which allows the previously bypassed wing forwards and wing backs to join the attack.

I'd agree with most of that, although we want to hold on to possession and want to move away from the long aimless balls into Clarke, sometimes Aaron does overdo the soloing but you're right, he's the best player we have for CHF at the minute.  While I'm a big Andy Mallon fan I wouldn't agree with some posters who thought he had a good game. He's not suited to marking a physically strong player like Coulter, he's not weak in the air like Heaney thinks but struggles against a physical presence like Coulter. The wee boy Laverty suited him down to the ground and he came to the fore then, thought Laverty was going to disappear up his own hole for a while.
For a young team I thought they responded brilliantly to a sickener of a goal and if they can pick up the resilience of the 99-05 era it wouldn't be a bad habit to get into.

[haveaharp]

Who is then?

My own preference would be Brian Mallon and if not him then Swift. I think you need a player there with some directness about them. Kernan holds on to the ball too long and allows defenders to funnell back. Id sooner see his brother playing there and thats saying something.

Fair enough, it seems you're not alone with this opinion. Though I'd wonder is this quick, direct ball a bit overrated. We've been using it for years and while it work back around 2002, success has dried up in recent times. Perhaps more measured, possession football is a better route to go down. It doesn't seem to have done us any harm so far this year, and McDonnell's form wouldn't suggest he has suffered through lack of ball. I'd be of the opinion that Kernan is playing an important role in this new system. In previous times the player in his position would have been under orders to release the ball into the FF line as quickly as possible, which resulted in a lot of shit 50/50 balls being thrown on top of Clarke in particular. Kernan seems to have more licence to take his time and make sure the ball is retained first and foremost, which allows the previously bypassed wing forwards and wing backs to join the attack.

I know where you are coming from but i always thought John Mc held on to the ball too long when he played at 11 (cracking player that he was), cant help but feel AK is doing the same thing.

[mountainboii]

Was it just me or was the Referee for the Armagh game very whistle happy when it came to contact, it seemed to be any player who lost their footing got a free, some great shoulder to shoulder hits got punished, any player surrounded got a free.

It wasn't just you. Andy Mallon's perfectly executed shoulder on Colgan (I think) in the first half, which resulted in a free that Clarke subsequently struck over, was one of countless examples of Kinneavy's intolerance of physicality. I really wish that someone would inform some of these referees that it is possible for a player to go to ground without a foul having been committed.

[charlieTully]

Very disapointed with the result but im sure the turn coat from Burren is happy enough winning a league where McDonnell has been outstanding.

Please tell me you're not serious.

should hope is he serious. o,rourke is a traitor. plian and simple. he should hand back his all Ireland medal.

[Armaghgeddon]

Very disapointed with the result but im sure the turn coat from Burren is happy enough winning a league where McDonnell has been outstanding.

Please tell me you're not serious.

should hope is he serious. o,rourke is a traitor. plian and simple. he should hand back his all Ireland medal.

You are joking surely?

Dont forget, it wasnt that long ago when the Down fans turned their back on him. So dont be giving off about him turning his back on Down [which he hasn't].

[passedit]

Very disapointed with the result but im sure the turn coat from Burren is happy enough winning a league where McDonnell has been outstanding.

Please tell me you're not serious.

should hope is he serious. o,rourke is a traitor. plian and simple. he should hand back his all Ireland medal.

Paddy owes Down nothing. Remember that it was Down that ran him. Should he sit in the house and do nothing? I'd say that he's hoping that a sucessful stint at Armagh might give him another shot at the Down job. Fair play to him I say.

[bennydorano]

Who is then?

My own preference would be Brian Mallon and if not him then Swift. I think you need a player there with some directness about them. Kernan holds on to the ball too long and allows defenders to funnell back. Id sooner see his brother playing there and thats saying something.

Fair enough, it seems you're not alone with this opinion. Though I'd wonder is this quick, direct ball a bit overrated. We've been using it for years and while it work back around 2002, success has dried up in recent times. Perhaps more measured, possession football is a better route to go down. It doesn't seem to have done us any harm so far this year, and McDonnell's form wouldn't suggest he has suffered through lack of ball. I'd be of the opinion that Kernan is playing an important role in this new system. In previous times the player in his position would have been under orders to release the ball into the FF line as quickly as possible, which resulted in a lot of shit 50/50 balls being thrown on top of Clarke in particular. Kernan seems to have more licence to take his time and make sure the ball is retained first and foremost, which allows the previously bypassed wing forwards and wing backs to join the attack.

Cannot agree at all, if you look at yesterday's game again the best passing into the FF line came from the wing forwards, AK was a passenger, when he did get the ball I didn't see him making much use of it bar a sidewards fist pass, pish -pure and simple.Club loyalties aside i think the good from of Nippy and Vernon is disguising the fact that the CHF is not doing his job.  Gerard O'kane (whom I would expect at 6) will devour AK.

[mackers]

Who is then?

My own preference would be Brian Mallon and if not him then Swift. I think you need a player there with some directness about them. Kernan holds on to the ball too long and allows defenders to funnell back. Id sooner see his brother playing there and thats saying something.

Fair enough, it seems you're not alone with this opinion. Though I'd wonder is this quick, direct ball a bit overrated. We've been using it for years and while it work back around 2002, success has dried up in recent times. Perhaps more measured, possession football is a better route to go down. It doesn't seem to have done us any harm so far this year, and McDonnell's form wouldn't suggest he has suffered through lack of ball. I'd be of the opinion that Kernan is playing an important role in this new system. In previous times the player in his position would have been under orders to release the ball into the FF line as quickly as possible, which resulted in a lot of shit 50/50 balls being thrown on top of Clarke in particular. Kernan seems to have more licence to take his time and make sure the ball is retained first and foremost, which allows the previously bypassed wing forwards and wing backs to join the attack.

Cannot agree at all, if you look at yesterday's game again the best passing into the FF line came from the wing forwards, AK was a passenger, when he did get the ball I didn't see him making much use of it bar a sidewards fist pass, pish -pure and simple.Club loyalties aside i think the good from of Nippy and Vernon is disguising the fact that the CHF is not doing his job.  Gerard O'kane (whom I would expect at 6) will devour AK.

But what are our options Benny, would you play Nippy or Vernon in CHF? Personally I wouldn't start shifting either of them about as both of them seem to be starting to believe that they belong on the county team.  I don't think anybody's saying that AK is the perfect CHF but nobody else jumps out. AK seems to be getting grumpier on the field and getting involved in niggly sh1t on the field that he never has done before. Presumably borne out of frustration.

[T O Hare]

Down had plenty of possession yesterday but failed to utilise it in the manner which Armagh did!!! I would have tried Garvey on Stevie as he is a great reader of the game who has played kernan extremley well in both games this year.. in saying that though i think Ak is a great talent but he would be better in defence!!!
I have to stand up for Daniel McCarten though as i have played football with him througout school and seen him play for school , club, uni and county and he is not the kind of player who would intentially stamp on an opposing player!!! He should get the red card overturned as he was running forward and could not get out of the road!!!

[Sandy Hill]

I have to stand up for Daniel McCarten though as i have played football with him througout school and seen him play for school , club, uni and county and he is not the kind of player who would intentially stamp on an opposing player!!! He should get the red card overturned as he was running forward and could not get out of the road!!!

[mackers]

Down had plenty of possession yesterday but failed to utilise it in the manner which Armagh did!!! I would have tried Garvey on Stevie as he is a great reader of the game who has played kernan extremley well in both games this year.. in saying that though i think Ak is a great talent but he would be better in defence!!!
I have to stand up for Daniel McCarten though as i have played football with him througout school and seen him play for school , club, uni and county and he is not the kind of player who would intentially stamp on an opposing player!!! He should get the red card overturned as he was running forward and could not get out of the road!!!

Think you're going to have to watch the TV replays again. If Ciaran McKeever had've done it I think the Gaaboard would've exploded with all the Down posts about it.

[charlieTully]

Down had plenty of possession yesterday but failed to utilise it in the manner which Armagh did!!! I would have tried Garvey on Stevie as he is a great reader of the game who has played kernan extremley well in both games this year.. in saying that though i think Ak is a great talent but he would be better in defence!!!
I have to stand up for Daniel McCarten though as i have played football with him througout school and seen him play for school , club, uni and county and he is not the kind of player who would intentially stamp on an opposing player!!! He should get the red card overturned as he was running forward and could not get out of the road!!!

f**k me at least be honest about it, he stamped on the lad end of story. totally uncalled for.

[mournerambler]

Very disapointed with the result but im sure the turn coat from Burren is happy enough winning a league where McDonnell has been outstanding.

Please tell me you're not serious.

should hope is he serious. o,rourke is a traitor. plian and simple. he should hand back his all Ireland medal.

I'd dare say you posted this to stir the sh-t Charlie & I wasn't going to respond but then I saw it was from a soccer head who's knowledge of Gaelic Games would be similar to your beloved Glasgow Celtic's trophy cabinet, so I thought I had to say something.
You really ought to catch a grip of yourself ffs, POR was nothing but loyal to his County as a player & manager & as far as i Know he literally begged the CB at the time for another year in the job.
POR owes his County nothing, the true Gaels of Down are proud of his achievements & wish him well in the future.

[western exile]

Very disapointed with the result but im sure the turn coat from Burren is happy enough winning a league where McDonnell has been outstanding.

Please tell me you're not serious.

should hope is he serious. o,rourke is a traitor. plian and simple. he should hand back his all Ireland medal.

I'd dare say you posted this to stir the sh-t Charlie & I wasn't going to respond but then I saw it was from a soccer head who's knowledge of Gaelic Games would be similar to your beloved Glasgow Celtic's trophy cabinet, so I thought I had to say something.
You really ought to catch a grip of yourself ffs, POR was nothing but loyal to his County as a player & manager & as far as i Know he literally begged the CB at the time for another year in the job.
POR owes his County nothing, the true Gaels of Down are proud of his achievements & wish him well in the future.

POR owes his County nothing, the true Gaels of Down are proud of his achievements & wish him well in the future.

Well said. Agreed.