Irelands Greatest Figures

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

James Connolly gave up his life for the cause he believed in.
John Hume put himself in real risk of doing the same.
Mary Robinson, gave up Ireland for a better job.
Bono doesnt even give up his taxes for Ireland.
Is there someone else.

Ya the Great Mick Collins murdered by traitors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0huRx8Ggshc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMo43fS782A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rShV4aqGQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKMbWUieQE4&feature=related

[pintsofguinness]

James Connolly gave up his life for the cause he believed in.
John Hume put himself in real risk of doing the same.
Mary Robinson, gave up Ireland for a better job.
Bono doesnt even give up his taxes for Ireland.
Is there someone else.

Connolly achieved none of his goals in giving up his life. Hume achieved something and still lives.

the 1916 leaders goal was to spark the fight for independence, they succeeded.

[pintsofguinness]

the 1916 leaders goal was to spark the fight for independence, they succeeded.

It wasn't Connelly's goal to spark the fight for National independence. Connelly's goal was to create a Republic based on equality not Identity. He failed.

When he walked to the rebellion his goal was to spark the fight.

What was Hume's goal, peace, an end to the divide? That's still not achieved.

[ardmhachaabu]

When he walked to the rebellion his goal was to spark the fight.

What was Hume's goal, peace, an end to the divide? That's still not achieved.

He was recruited in 1916 as it would have been an even more divided Country without the Citizens army. He joined in order to put a socialist element to the Proclamation and follow through on that promise. That element of the proclamation was binned shortly after his death. The tri colour was never Connelly's flag and he did not die to create a Republic based on British principles. Connelly did not die to give Brian Lenihan the right to inflict NAMA on the Irish people nor did he die so FF, FG and Labour could hand control of the Irish people to Brussels. He did not die so Ray Burke could give our national resources over to Shell. He did not die to divide the Country and abandon the poor people of the north to a Unionist state nor for SF to take seats in Stormont.

Just to add - he did not die so that Irish people would butcher eachother over a treaty wrote in London.

Very well said Zap, he wouldn't have approved of the idea of Ireland's greatest figure either

[pintsofguinness]

When he walked to the rebellion his goal was to spark the fight.

What was Hume's goal, peace, an end to the divide? That's still not achieved.

He was recruited in 1916 as it would have been an even more divided Country without the Citizens army. He joined in order to put a socialist element to the Proclamation and follow through on that promise. That element of the proclamation was binned shortly after his death. The tri colour was never Connelly's flag and he did not die to create a Republic based on British principles. Connelly did not die to give Brian Lenihan the right to inflict NAMA on the Irish people nor did he die so FF, FG and Labour could hand control of the Irish people to Brussels. He did not die so Ray Burke could give our national resources over to Shell. He did not die to divide the Country and abandon the poor people of the north to a Unionist state nor for SF to take seats in Stormont.

Just to add - he did not die so that Irish people would butcher eachother over a treaty wrote in London.

No, but he achieved his direct goal and what was John Hume's overall goal?

(not that whether or not goals where achieved really matters in determining this silly contest)

[Maguire01]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1023/1224281826836.html

1 - Hume
2 - Collins
3 - Robinson
4 - Connolly
5 - Bono

[Main Street]

When he walked to the rebellion his goal was to spark the fight.

What was Hume's goal, peace, an end to the divide? That's still not achieved.

He was recruited in 1916 as it would have been an even more divided Country without the Citizens army. He joined in order to put a socialist element to the Proclamation and follow through on that promise. That element of the proclamation was binned shortly after his death. The tri colour was never Connelly's flag and he did not die to create a Republic based on British principles. Connelly did not die to give Brian Lenihan the right to inflict NAMA on the Irish people nor did he die so FF, FG and Labour could hand control of the Irish people to Brussels. He did not die so Ray Burke could give our national resources over to Shell. He did not die to divide the Country and abandon the poor people of the north to a Unionist state nor for SF to take seats in Stormont.

Just to add - he did not die so that Irish people would butcher each other over a treaty wrote in London.

Did he or any of the others in 1916 die for that? You have a peculiar view of the actions of humans and subscribing pass or fail within a prescribed timeline and possibly within a particular ideological perspective.

The fact that he is on that list proves how badly he failed.

I didn't listen to this debate on tv,  nor have any interest in it, so I am not aware of the argument put forward for regarding Connolly as the greatest Irishman. It was a peculiar list indeed. Connolly was not a man interested in being liked, nor a man who acted accordingly to increase his chances of being liked. He acted as he saw fit according to his ideology, without expectation of success of failure. His success was his response of action to the circumstances of the time and imo, the results of that action have still to be played out.

[balladmaker]

As a competition, it bordered on the cringeworthy....as individual documentaries, very watchable.....apart from the one about Bono.

John Hume more than deserves his pat on the back, as do the other people shortlisted (with the exception of Bono).

But surely Ireland can come up with a better mechanism for recognising those who have contributed most to their country than a nonsensical competition on RTE.

[Zapatista]

Did he or any of the others in 1916 die for that? You have a peculiar view of the actions of humans and subscribing pass or fail within a prescribed timeline and possibly within a particular ideological perspective.

Probably not but none of the others are being discussed.

I've no ideological perspective on their actions nor do I romanticise them or take part in rewriting them. I judge Connelly on his words and actions up to the time he died. I have nothing else to go on. Fair enough about the timeline but I suspect that the game is up for what Connelly hoped and should someone else come along and achieve what Connelly didn't (something I'd love to see happen) then I'd say it will have had little to do with Connelly himself.

[fearglasmor]

Unfettered capitalism / consumerism cheerleaded by the Fianna Fail / PD gogshites has brought us to where we are. I am no socialist but there has to be a better way.

[mc_grens]

Nally, tell me what you know of David Nelligan (apart from An Phoblacht).

I remember being at a rally in the early/mid 80s when Maskey said he'd never set foot in Stormont.

But things change and ideals refine themselves. Hume had the good of most at heart.

I know nothing of David Nelligan other than that he was (not according to An Phoblacht, but according to the Belfast Telegraph) a "senior" Irish Government official who's remarks were revealed in papers released under the 30 year rule (hence, hardly a claim he made for "west-brit propaganda" purposes, or else his remarks would have been made in public at the time). Whether his claims are true are not isn't even relevant. The fact that there is even good reason to believe he initially supported the introduction of internment, in my view, should rule him out of winning such an award. I have also stated that his self styled philosophy of post-nationalism would also be enough to rule him out for me.

And again can I say that I don't think he is in ANY WAY a bad person. He clearly isn't. But greater than James Connolly? Padraig Pearse? Rodger Casement? Wolfe Tone? St Patrick? St Bridget? St Colmcille? Oliver Plunkett?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/uk-ireland/top-diplomat-thought-hume-wanted-return-of-internment-14616414.html

I stopped reading this thread at this point.

Nally Stand is right in a way... Hume's name does not belong among those he listed... Instead, as a truly great man of peace, I'd place him alongside the following...

Martin Luther King, Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, and Tenzin Gyatso.

His greatness transcends this country.

[sammymaguire]

As a competition, it bordered on the cringeworthy....as individual documentaries, very watchable.....apart from the one about Bono.

John Hume more than deserves his pat on the back, as do the other people shortlisted (with the exception of Bono).

But surely Ireland can come up with a better mechanism for recognising those who have contributed most to their country than a nonsensical competition on RTE.

I think this programme was just meant to be tv entertainment, that's all.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Can't understand how she was overlooked