Did Brady covered up child abuse?

[Main Street]

If you cant defend the Church on it's own merits, without trying to hide behind straw man arguments, then you are as bad as they are.

This is the you are as bad as them argument, as an attempt to stifle debate. I merely point out that people routinely turn a blind eye for their own convenience. Speaking of milligrams of alchohol is an attempt to disguise that a drunk driver might kill multiple people.

The "Oath of Silence" is a key point, if it related to the confidentiality of the church disciplinary proceedings then it is merely old fashioned. If it implied that the children etc could not report the matters to the authorities then throw the book at Brady.

A pedophile demonstrates sexual attraction to children, potentially dangerous
A driver over the limit has potential to cause an accident.
There is a similarity

Your allegory only makes some sense if you know the inebriated driver was involved in a hit and run and colluded with him to avoid prosecution and continued to collude with him as he continued to demonstrate his ability get involved with hit and runs every day.

The "Oath of Silence" is a key point, if it related to the confidentiality of the church disciplinary proceedings then it is merely old fashioned. If it implied that the children etc could not report the matters to the authorities then throw the book at Brady.

The oath is only one of the issues involved, not the key issue.
The first conspiracy is done by the sexual abuser, he threatens the children (with eternal damnation?) should they open their mouths. The second conspiracy is done after the children overcome their fear and shame to testify against the sex abuser.
Then the children are required by the investigators to take an (another) oath of silence.
If the children and parents were not advised to take it to the police then it is a conspiracy imposed upon the children by the people entrusted to investigate their abuse. Not only is that enough proof that the oath was not to protect the children but the complete inaction afterwards against the abusive priest completes the argument.
Brady participated in a conspiracy.

[HIGH BALL CENTRE FIELD]

http://fullergalway.blogspot.com/2010/03/cardinal-sean-brady-dont-resign.html

This is old news really!

[orangeman]

http://fullergalway.blogspot.com/2010/03/cardinal-sean-brady-dont-resign.html

This is old news really!

We, the Catholic people, need to know and assert that the media are not in the driving seat.


It's alright lads, it's the media's fault !!!! Them ba---rds of reporters and editors !!!   

[magpie seanie]

I'm with Turk here - words simply fail me.

[orangeman]

 The Rape Crisis Network Ireland (RCNI) said Cardinal Brady's position has become untenable.

"Cardinal Brady is personally implicated in collusion with clerical child sexual abuse," RCNI director Fiona Neary said.

"In recent public statements regarding clerical child abuse he did not make public his role in pressuring and bullying victims to remain silent. He did not make public his own failures to disclosure a known abuser to civil authorities."

"Sexual abuse that could have been prevented was not, and Brendan Smyth continued to abuse children."


The opposition Irish Labour party has added to the pressure on Cardinal Brady calling for the police to investigate his role.

The party's spokeswoman on social and family affairs, Roisin Shortall, said the cardinal was "hopelessly compromised by what had emerged".


"I believe that there should be a Garda (Irish police) investigation to determine whether or not the failure to report Fr Smyth's crimes to the civil authorities was, itself, a criminal offence," she said.

"I am advised that the administering of an oath requiring these children not to disclose the abuse to anyone else may also have constituted an offence."

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I wonder is the Catholic Church's behaviour in Ireland an unorthodox attempt to ensure a majority of Protestants in Ireland vote for a United Ireland. The way they are going Ireland might end up with more Nationalist dissenters than Unionist ones.

[Seany]

We need to cut through all the emotional stuff and get to the kernel of procedure re child protection.  The question is - Was the proper procedure followed when he was faced with the disclosures.

And the answer is yes he did.

Firstly, the latest and most modern procedures for dealing with child abuse is contained ina  circular for teachers called 1999 10.  This states that you have to take notes, not investigate or unearth and then pass the information on.  He did just that.

Secondly, under the Human Rights Act 1998 Article 8 - the Need to Know principle bars ANYONE who passed information on from receiving a report on what happened.

Cardinal Brady acted perfectly appropriately when put up against these 2 most modern of criteria in that he passed on the information and asked no more.   This was his duty and nothing whatsoever beyond that.

No more comment required.  I sense a complete witchhunt against the Catholic Church here. 

[Rois]

Cardinal Brady acted perfectly appropriately when put up against these 2 most modern of criteria in that he passed on the information and asked no more.   This was his duty and nothing whatsoever beyond that.

No more comment required.  I sense a complete witchhunt against the Catholic Church here. 

Which is fine if Cardinal Brady was a civil servant who acted in line with his job description.  But he is charged with leading a Christian faith in Ireland that should promote Christian values and it is my opinion that he has lost that authority on a moral level, if not on a procedural one. 

I don't think criminal procedures are appropriate, but for the sake of the Church, I think he should step aside. 

[Franko]

Does this procedure involve making the child sign an oath which prevents them from telling anyone else about what went on.  I'd severely doubt it.

[orangeman]

The reputation and credibility of the man that is leader of the church lies in ruins and for that reason, he should step aside.

He condemned himself in that interview in December. Now he should follow what he said. Resign.

[DuffleKing]

Cardinal Brady acted perfectly appropriately when put up against these 2 most modern of criteria in that he passed on the information and asked no more.   This was his duty and nothing whatsoever beyond that.

No more comment required.  I sense a complete witchhunt against the Catholic Church here. 

Which is fine if Cardinal Brady was a civil servant who acted in line with his job description.  But he is charged with leading a Christian faith in Ireland that should promote Christian values and it is my opinion that he has lost that authority on a moral level, if not on a procedural one. 

I don't think criminal procedures are appropriate, but for the sake of the Church, I think he should step aside.

Not at the time he wasn't. He was simply a clergyman following church protocols and orders from above. You think he should have thought "ah now maybe some day i'll be an arch bishop..."

Granted, if he had his time again he may have stepped outside his ecumenical resposibilities, given what he knows now.

Wouldn't it be great to have 20:20 hindsight.

[The Iceman]

Does this procedure involve making the child sign an oath which prevents them from telling anyone else about what went on.  I'd severely doubt it.

I think we should be careful about what is said about this oath.

From the Church Statement:

the intention of the confidentiality oath was "to avoid potential collusion in the gathering of the inquiry's evidence" and to ensure that the process was "robust enough to withstand challenge by the perpetrator, Fr Brendan Smyth".

The Child Protection Program currently adhered to by the Church is the same one adhered to by teachers and all people who's job involves contact with Children.  I myself completed these courses and as Seany points out Brady did act in accordance with today's procedures.

I can imagine Sean Brady is not with remorse or guilt here - he has to know he should have done more and just 'doing what he was told' wasn't enough.  That being said I can also see that he was bound by vows to do what he was told and unless you are a member of the clergy posting on the GAA Board I don't think any of us can fully understand what this means.

[longrunsthefox]

We need to cut through all the emotional stuff and get to the kernel of procedure re child protection.  The question is - Was the proper procedure followed when he was faced with the disclosures.

And the answer is yes he did.

Firstly, the latest and most modern procedures for dealing with child abuse is contained ina  circular for teachers called 1999 10.  This states that you have to take notes, not investigate or unearth and then pass the information on.  He did just that.

Secondly, under the Human Rights Act 1998 Article 8 - the Need to Know principle bars ANYONE who passed information on from receiving a report on what happened.

Cardinal Brady acted perfectly appropriately when put up against these 2 most modern of criteria in that he passed on the information and asked no more.   This was his duty and nothing whatsoever beyond that.

No more comment required.  I sense a complete witchhunt against the Catholic Church here.

OK- Seany.. thanks for clearing that up. I'll delete the thread now... sure it is only child rape, nothing to get emotional about and  church rules is church rules...

[Franko]

I have also completed these child protection courses.  The general procedure is that any allegations of child abuse are passed to the designated officer in the school/club/institution who then deals with them from there and informs the relevant authorities.  However, IF the person feels that the allegations are of a serious enough nature and that the child in question (or other children) may be at risk in the short term, the advice is that the person by-passes the chain of command and goes straight to civil authorities.  NOWHERE do these procedures mention oaths of silence for the alleged victim or anything of that nature whatsoever.

[orangeman]

It's everyone else's fault apart from Brady's and the church as a whole.