West brits

[Chrisowc]

I was born in the British archipelago and English is my native tongue, so I am British.

Are all persons in Ireland equally British then? Are people from the Isle of Man Irish given that they were born in the Irish sea?

Mermaids?

[Rossfan]

The majority of people in Northern Ireland also wish to be British, as do the respective majorities in England, Scotland and Wales. All four such nations manage this dual identity perfectly easily.

What defines a "Nation" ?
A Majority of the people of Tyrone and Fermanagh see them selves as Irish and nothing else so does that make Tyrone and Fermanagh a "Nation"

[SuperMac]

Gnevin easy. Indeed if their was a vote around here for the most conceited w@nker he would.......well, I better not say or else I will be in trouble with the mods. Been a Dub, always associted West Brit with those from the ' posher ' parts of Dublin like Garret Fitzgerald, Conor Cruise O'Brien etc who tried to copy the accents of the brit Hooray Henry type etc and are partitionist/castle catholics in their political views.

[mountainboii]

I was born in the British archipelago and English is my native tongue, so I am British.

Are all persons in Ireland equally British then? Are people from the Isle of Man Irish given that they were born in the Irish sea?

Mermaids?

Mermanx

[sammymaguire]

is this a fiesty debate going on here or slanging match?? can't be bothered reading through it

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I was born in the British archipelago and English is my native tongue, so I am British.

Are all persons in Ireland equally British then?

No, for two reasons. First, the majority of people in Ireland no longer qualify automatically for British Citizenship, as they did at the time of Hewitt's birth. Second, even those who do may renounce it.
All Hewitt was saying is that he embraced his own Britishness, being qualified both legally and geographically, and that no-one else had the right to deny him that.
And years after his death, there remain around one million Irish people who feel the same.

Are people from the Isle of Man Irish given that they were born in the Irish sea?

Oh dear, you are confused. Hewitt was British, because he was a British citizen, born in the British Isles, who embraced his Britishness.
He was also Irish, because he was born in Ireland.
By exactly the same reasoning, however, unless he also has Irish ancestry, a Manxman cannot claim to be Irish, since he will not have been born in Ireland.

P.S. If someone were "born in the Irish sea", perhaps that might make him/her a Merman/Mermaid? 

Any British marker on this Island (Ireland and its offshore islands) is purely political, it has lost all claim on the territory of Eire (Ireland the state). The assertion of Northern Ireland being British is purely a political fact but a geographical lie. The day that the 6 counties in the North East of the Island vote to unite with the Independent Irish entity to the South it will no longer be politicaly British. What we will have is a British ethnic minority in the political and geographical Ireland or Irish Isles if you wish to include the likes of Achill, Tory, Lambay etc. Ireland is part of Europe.

[WeAreBlueWeAreWhite]

is this a fiesty debate going on here or slanging match?? can't be bothered reading through it

Pure slagging and quite racist at that

[sammymaguire]

is this a fiesty debate going on here or slanging match?? can't be bothered reading through it

Pure slagging and quite racist at that

racism or more sectarianism? you are no angel yourself WABWAW 

[whiskeysteve]

Ruth Dudley Edwards
and
supporters of Glasgow Celtic

very different on the face of it but
singing off the same West Brit hymn sheet

like Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder in 'Ebony and Ivory'

[Evil Genius]

Any British marker on this Island (Ireland and its offshore islands) is purely political,

Primarily political, but by no means exclusively so.

it has lost all claim on the territory of Eire (Ireland the state).

I prefer the term "renounced", but whatever...

The assertion of Northern Ireland being British is purely a political fact but a geographical lie.

And the assertions that Okinawa is Japanese or that Hawaii is American are presumably also "geographical lies"?

The day that the 6 counties in the North East of the Island vote to unite with the Independent Irish entity to the South it will no longer be politicaly British.

Is "stating the bleedin' obvious", to no particular relevance to the debate in hand, a Mayo specialty, or just your own particular wee "gift"?

What we will have is a British ethnic minority in the political and geographical Ireland or Irish Isles if you wish to include the likes of Achill, Tory, Lambay etc. Ireland is part of Europe.

Hang on. If the British presence in Ireland is merely a "political marker" i.e. with no tangible presence on the island, where did this "British ethnic minority" you refer to spring out of? 

Ireland is part of Europe.

Ah right, we're back to the "bleedin' obvious" again - your "Specialist Subject", no doubt...

Anyhow, insofar as the above rant impinges tangentially on the various points I was trying to make (and only then coincidentally, I'd say), how does any of it actually contradict any of them? 

P.S. Interesting signature you have there. If I were to try to sign off as "Fermanaghman, Ulsterman, Briton, European", would that be allowed in that wee FantasyMayoLand you appear to inhabit? 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Any British marker on this Island (Ireland and its offshore islands) is purely political,

Primarily political, but by no means exclusively so.

it has lost all claim on the territory of Eire (Ireland the state).

I prefer the term "renounced", but whatever... DEFEATED BY 

The assertion of Northern Ireland being British is purely a political fact but a geographical lie.

And the assertions that Okinawa is Japanese or that Hawaii is American are presumably also "geographical lies"? YES

The day that the 6 counties in the North East of the Island vote to unite with the Independent Irish entity to the South it will no longer be politicaly British.

Is "stating the bleedin' obvious", to no particular relevance to the debate in hand, a Mayo specialty, or just your own particular wee "gift"?

What we will have is a British ethnic minority in the political and geographical Ireland or Irish Isles if you wish to include the likes of Achill, Tory, Lambay etc. Ireland is part of Europe.

Hang on. If the British presence in Ireland is merely a "political marker" i.e. with no tangible presence on the island, where did this "British ethnic minority" you refer to spring out of? 

Ireland is part of Europe.

Ah right, we're back to the "bleedin' obvious" again - your "Specialist Subject", no doubt...

Anyhow, insofar as the above rant impinges tangentially on the various points I was trying to make (and only then coincidentally, I'd say), how does any of it actually contradict any of them? 

P.S. Interesting signature you have there. If I were to try to sign off as "Fermanaghman, Ulsterman, Briton, European", would that be allowed in that wee FantasyMayoLand you appear to inhabit? 

Change Briton to British and I would be ok with that, British is a British Subject, a Briton is from the Island of Britain    I thought you might have entered Irishman & Northern Irishman in there also 

My problem is entirely with your assertions you are British because you come from the imaginary Imperialistic British Isles, I have no problem with you claiming to be British based on a political or genealogical reality, as opposed to a geographical lie/fantasy. I have no problem with you claiming to be British, its your basis for doing so that I disagree.

Surely stating the obvious just means Im right.

[stew]

Getting back to the original question, Gnevin by a country mile.

[armaghniac]

The majority of people in Northern Ireland also wish to be British, as do the respective majorities in England, Scotland and Wales. All four such nations manage this dual identity perfectly easily.

Scottish, English and Welsh people are British by definition, as they are from Britain. Northern Ireland is British by conquest. Not quite the same thing. And of course Welsh speakers have an authenthic British language, unlike the blow in Germans who run most of the island.

[magickingdom]

biggest WB is EG.  In such denial about his nationality

What is it I have ever denied about my Nationality?

That I am Irish? - It's obvious from the moment I open my mouth.
That I am British? - It's on the Passport I carry every time I leave the country.
That I am European? - Both the land I was born and brought up in and the land where I have lived most of my adult life are firmly within the continent of Europe.

In fact, not only am I all three, but I am proud to be so.

I was reminded recently of a statement by the Belfast Poet John Hewitt, which addressed this very issue. It's not exactly how I would phrase it myself, but the general sentiment neatly reflects my own, particularly the last clause:

"I'm an Ulsterman, of planter stock. I was born in the island of Ireland, so secondarily I'm an Irishman. I was born in the British archipelago and English is my native tongue, so I am British. The British archipelago consists of offshore islands to the continent of Europe, so I'm European. This is my hierarchy of values and so far as I am concerned, anyone who omits one step in that sequence of values is falsifying the situation."

In fact, it seems to me that the only people "in denial" are those who, like yourself, would deny that there is more than one type of "Irishman", or that being an Irishman automatically excludes one from having any additional identifying characteristics.

Which, considering you are an Irishman who recently took out Australian* Nationality, marks you out as either being thick, confused, prejudiced, hypocritical, or some combination of the four.

* - Remind me again who your new Head of State is? 

there is no such place as the british archipelago or british isles, its not recognised in law or by any country. however if it helps you get thro the day good for you... and while i'm at it theres also no santa

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

biggest WB is EG.  In such denial about his nationality

What is it I have ever denied about my Nationality?

That I am Irish? - It's obvious from the moment I open my mouth.
That I am British? - It's on the Passport I carry every time I leave the country.
That I am European? - Both the land I was born and brought up in and the land where I have lived most of my adult life are firmly within the continent of Europe.

In fact, not only am I all three, but I am proud to be so.

I was reminded recently of a statement by the Belfast Poet John Hewitt, which addressed this very issue. It's not exactly how I would phrase it myself, but the general sentiment neatly reflects my own, particularly the last clause:

"I'm an Ulsterman, of planter stock. I was born in the island of Ireland, so secondarily I'm an Irishman. I was born in the British archipelago and English is my native tongue, so I am British. The British archipelago consists of offshore islands to the continent of Europe, so I'm European. This is my hierarchy of values and so far as I am concerned, anyone who omits one step in that sequence of values is falsifying the situation."

In fact, it seems to me that the only people "in denial" are those who, like yourself, would deny that there is more than one type of "Irishman", or that being an Irishman automatically excludes one from having any additional identifying characteristics.

Which, considering you are an Irishman who recently took out Australian* Nationality, marks you out as either being thick, confused, prejudiced, hypocritical, or some combination of the four.

* - Remind me again who your new Head of State is? 

there is no such place as the british archipelago or british isles, its not recognised in law or by any country. however if it helps you get thro the day good for you... and while i'm at it theres also no santa

and the mainlaind is the Euroasian-African landmass.