This is 2009, right? Insanity at Knock!

[J70]

I dont think anyone is suggesting not going to a doctor.   

Its fair enough if you dont believe what they do, I dont really buy it myself but ridiculing someone for believing something you dont is the height of arrogance.

Quite right.
Arrogance towards  and ridicule of beliefs here, have nothing to do with science,
more to do with emotional immaturity.

So what would the "emotionally mature" approach to the events at Knock be? To let them go without comment or at worst take a "live and let live" approach?

Just because a belief or outbreak of mass hysteria is sincere does not make it worthy of respect.

[Gnevin]

like any one would believe if a picture or TV footage any way
and as for the doctor how about a joke to lighten the mood?

moshie was a fervent Beliver who prayed every day and did good works constantly and believed he had a deal with God who would always look after him , but one day was his town flooded ans Moshie climbed onto the roof to escape the rising water.
after an hour a boat came to rescue him but he said
'God will look after me' and sent the boat away
the water still rose and a another boat came but again he said
'God will look after me' and sent the boat away
finally as his feet were getting wet in the roof a helicopter let down a ladder but he refused to climb it citing his deal with God. he then slipped and drowned
When he got to the pearly gates he began giving out shit to god ,
hey what happened our deal you let me drown
and God says
' hey i did my part i sent 2 boats and a helicopter'

sorry if i sound like a missioner

Moral of the story god will attempt to murder you and your family but if your lucky he will have second thoughts and send a boat?

Also unless god flew the Helicopter himself or directly told someone to rescue you ,free will means god had nothing to do with the 2 boats and the Helicopter .Just as people can wash god's hands of Murderers and others such characters by claiming free will.

[Billys Boots]

You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people believe it. I've seen enough strange and unexplainable things, in my relevantly short amount of time on this planet to be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

He's back, it's a miracle. 

[Declan]

Just as people can wash god's hands of Murderers and others such characters by claiming free will.

You lost me there Gnevin

[Gnevin]

Just as people can wash god's hands of Murderers and others such characters by claiming free will.

You lost me there Gnevin

When I and others ask why god allows the likes of Hitler ,Stalin or Myra Hindley to be evil or why there are bad people in the world  in general the answer is that god gave us free will to do as we like . 

Thus if people have free will to murder ,it's free will that would lead to the man on the roof getting the offer of being saved .

[Declan]

it's free will that would lead to the man on the roof getting the offer of being saved .

And therefore also free will that allows him not take the offers of help or just plain stupidity?

[orangeman]

Some doll was on the Gerry Ryan show there now - she swears that the sun started to rotate and dance in the sky.


Our Lady appeared to 6 people in the Church.

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

I've only skimmed over this thread so apologies if this has been said already. Two questions to anyone who might enlighten me.
How do the church decide what's a miracle and what isn't. For example Lourdes v the tree in Limerick. I did find it funny the way the tree was dismissed and laughed at yet they're still queing in Knock and Lourdes.
Secondly, did any media person ever ask the people that believe they saw Mary or whatever they think they saw what they think it means? I know logic isn't usually at play here but why do they think she would appear for a few seconds and disappear. Maybe she was telling them to f**k off and make better use of their time.

[ziggysego]

How do the church decide what's a miracle and what isn't.

The Vatican study claims of miracles and exhaust what they believe is all scientific explanations before declaring it a miracle or not. Not done on a whim.

[Main Street]

I dont think anyone is suggesting not going to a doctor.   

Its fair enough if you dont believe what they do, I dont really buy it myself but ridiculing someone for believing something you dont is the height of arrogance.

Quite right.
Arrogance towards  and ridicule of beliefs here, have nothing to do with science,
more to do with emotional immaturity.

So what would the "emotionally mature" approach to the events at Knock be? To let them go without comment or at worst take a "live and let live" approach?

Just because a belief or outbreak of mass hysteria is sincere does not make it worthy of respect.

It might have escaped your attention that mass hysteria is what happens throughout the land on a saturday night.

In your considered opinion a couple of thousand people doing what they do, peacefully, on their own patch, is not worthy of respect.
Neither is it worthy of the disrespect you have exhibited. That is the emotionally maturity you need to grasp, but you don't learn that from some scientific study someplace.

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

How do the church decide what's a miracle and what isn't.

The Vatican study claims of miracles and exhaust what they believe is all scientific explanations before declaring it a miracle or not. Not done on a whim.

Ok, but if something appears in thin air and is witnessed by a few people and no scientific evidence can be found isn't there a large degree of taking people's word for it.
Sorry to simplify it. It just seems inevitable that this would take place.

[ziggysego]

How do the church decide what's a miracle and what isn't.

The Vatican study claims of miracles and exhaust what they believe is all scientific explanations before declaring it a miracle or not. Not done on a whim.

Ok, but if something appears in thin air and is witnessed by a few people and no scientific evidence can be found isn't there a large degree of taking people's word for it.
Sorry to simplify it. It just seems inevitable that this would take place.

I guess that's where faith comes into it. You either have it or don't. Hope I don't sound facetious there.

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

Mmm, but couldn't a few chancers declare they saw something and it's swallowed by the church and there we have it, a modern day miracle?
Anyway, I'm more interested in why such a miracle would happen.

[theskull1]

Anyway, I'm more interested in why such a miracle would happen.

Exactly. Any believers got an opinion on why god lets thousands of children die (of their own free will) of starvation and disease yet he can show up and do criptic party tricks to the faithful here to let us all know he's "fo real"?

There must be people who are genetically predisposed to soaking up all this sort of bunkum and believing every bit of it. These people who WANT to believe will leave their minds open to all sorts of influence. "Look the sun is dancing in the sky....don't you see it?"........"Oh yes ...yes I see what you mean....it's a miracle".....Darren Brown anybody?  . Do not underestimate the trickery of the mind to see what you want to see.

Thank god  I'm not one of them.

[haveaharp]

Some doll was on the Gerry Ryan show there now - she swears that the sun started to rotate and dance in the sky.


Our Lady appeared to 6 people in the Church.

Who's more likely to appear next around Knock, our Lady or Sam Maguire ?