"this ridiculous NAMA plan"

Zapatista · September 16, 2009, 08:09:23 AM

What will you say when your children ask you - why did you do it?

Say No to NAMA by taking part in a protest march.

The march will take place on September 19, beginning with a rally at Parnell Square before walking through the city, past the Dáil and finishing outside Anglo Irish Bank on St Stephen's Green

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eycwojqlojcw/rss2/#ixzz0RFd3cKP8

botman · September 16, 2009, 09:07:12 AM

Yes if all other arguments fail - then please think of the children.

Declan · September 16, 2009, 09:10:18 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLboAXuxWXY

Interesting piece in todays times by Dermot Desmond as well http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0916/1224254639563.html

guy crouchback · September 16, 2009, 09:37:26 AM

very interesting article by Desmond but politically a non runner as it means handing a hell of a lot of money to the banks on a sort of double or bust bet.

Gnevin · September 16, 2009, 09:48:15 AM

Quote from: Zapatista on September 16, 2009, 08:09:23 AM
What will you say when your children ask you - why did you do it?

It was the best of bad set of options?

Capt Pat · September 16, 2009, 10:17:51 AM

Does the country go bust if we don't have nama. Could we not just round up the bankrupt property developers and inept bankers who got us into this mess and send them abroad to answer for themselves with the people they owe money to.

Zapatista · September 16, 2009, 10:34:23 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on September 16, 2009, 09:48:15 AM

It was the best of bad set of options?

I don't know if the Government have looked at any other options. They say it's the only option but as we know there are other options.

It also depends on what you want to achieve. It might be better to just buy all the empty houses and property of the developers for last years market price and be done with it.

rossie mad · September 16, 2009, 11:36:26 AM

We are really just saving the skins of the banks and the property developers by introducing this legislation.
I worked in the finance department in one of these big property developers for years.
What the banks did was literally throw out money to these companies for every site out there,for machinery and equipment and just didnt put any contingency plan in place for something like a world recession.
When i left the company last november (i would have been laid off in december anyway as i found out later) the company had debt of tens of millions.it had stopped paying its repayments on its asset finance with an agreement to pay interest only in 2009.
It was paying interest only on its property loans and not even touching its capital repayments on these and the main bank it dealt with agreed to all this.
I was chatting an ex colleague who is still working there and he says they are now repaying nothing and the bank is still keeping queit.
This is the exact same situation with the vast majority of construction company and property developer in ireland.
We are now taking over this debt with NAMA and the goverment are saying that the property developers will have to pay.
With what? The companies they own are close to insolvency and a lobby group like CIF will ensure that there members wont have a bumpy ride.
I know from experience that the exact same politicians bringing in this NAMA were wined and dined at functions by the likes of CIF and were given a few quid here and there to keep the gravy train going but thats not really a secret anymore.
This isnt the best option of a bad lot this is the only option which suits the people who got us into this.
What will happen when the banks get rid of this toxic debt from their balance sheets?
The goverment says it will allow them to lend again.WRONG.
THey owe so much money to european banks and investors who provide the capital that they will have to get money back first.
We really are on a slippery slope because the country cant keep borrowing at the level its at.
Colin McCarthy says we are bust and he is dead right.
We dont have a pot to piss in and i think we will only realise this as a nation once the budget is annouced in over two months.
The IMF is waiting at the door and dont be suprised if they intervene before the year is out.

Rant over

magpie seanie · September 16, 2009, 12:20:43 PM

That's a superb piece by Dermot Desmond. I couldn't argue with any of it. In fairness he has experience in the area unlike the gimps who are about to bury the country for a century or more with this ridiculous NAMA plan.

Guy - what is NAMA if its not a "double or bust bet"? NAMA will not succeed for many logical reasons and one of them is that the people running have no incentive whatsoever to make it work.

I just pray that something will happen to avoid us falling into this abyss.

Zapatista · September 16, 2009, 12:37:05 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on September 16, 2009, 12:20:43 PM
this ridiculous NAMA plan.

I had to quote that in the title.

Is it rediculous? Will it achieve what the Government want it to achieve? Are they being truthfull when they tell us why they are doing NAMA?

ludermor · September 16, 2009, 01:48:57 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on September 16, 2009, 12:20:43 PM
That's a superb piece by Dermot Desmond. I couldn't argue with any of it. In fairness he has experience in the area unlike the gimps who are about to bury the country for a century or more with this ridiculous NAMA plan.

Guy - what is NAMA if its not a "double or bust bet"? NAMA will not succeed for many logical reasons and one of them is that the people running have no incentive whatsoever to make it work.

I just pray that something will happen to avoid us falling into this abyss.

I dont think anyone can forecast how NAMA will do because we dont even know the mechanics of how it will work. Desmond mentioned a figure of 60bn as a cost of NAMA and says it should instead be given to the banks to increase liquidity but would you be happy giving 60bn to the people who administered the whole mess in the first place?
The banks need to start lending fast, we have several big subbies ( turnover 5m plus a year) who have had their credit facilities constantly cut over the last 6 months and they would have very good credit ratings & history but they are getting very close to going to the wall are they cannot pay their suppliers. Things are very close to getting a whole lot worse now!

Zapatista · September 16, 2009, 01:55:13 PM

Quote from: ludermor on September 16, 2009, 01:48:57 PM

I dont think anyone can forecast how NAMA will do because we dont even know the mechanics of how it will work. Desmond mentioned a figure of 60bn as a cost of NAMA and says it should instead be given to the banks to increase liquidity but would you be happy giving 60bn to the people who administered the whole mess in the first place?
The banks need to start lending fast, we have several big subbies ( turnover 5m plus a year) who have had their credit facilities constantly cut over the last 6 months and they would have very good credit ratings & history but they are getting very close to going to the wall are they cannot pay their suppliers. Things are very close to getting a whole lot worse now!

FF administrated the whole mess.

We do know the proposal and the mechanics of how it works. It is being debated in the Dail today.

magpie seanie · September 16, 2009, 02:40:34 PM

Quote from: ludermor on September 16, 2009, 01:48:57 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 16, 2009, 12:20:43 PM
That's a superb piece by Dermot Desmond. I couldn't argue with any of it. In fairness he has experience in the area unlike the gimps who are about to bury the country for a century or more with this ridiculous NAMA plan.

Guy - what is NAMA if its not a "double or bust bet"? NAMA will not succeed for many logical reasons and one of them is that the people running have no incentive whatsoever to make it work.

I just pray that something will happen to avoid us falling into this abyss.
I dont think anyone can forecast how NAMA will do because we dont even know the mechanics of how it will work. Desmond mentioned a figure of 60bn as a cost of NAMA and says it should instead be given to the banks to increase liquidity but would you be happy giving 60bn to the people who administered the whole mess in the first place?
The banks need to start lending fast, we have several big subbies ( turnover 5m plus a year) who have had their credit facilities constantly cut over the last 6 months and they would have very good credit ratings & history but they are getting very close to going to the wall are they cannot pay their suppliers. Things are very close to getting a whole lot worse now!

Are we not doing the same with NAMA except civil servants will be trying to clean up a mess they know nothing about? Now I know Desmond has his own agenda but I'd be marginally more confident having bankers (who stand to gain if they are successful) doing the repair work than a quango.

Donagh · September 16, 2009, 02:59:35 PM

Wee Arthur giving some stick at the moment. Currently suspended for the second time and they haven't even got onto NAMA yet.

Gnevin · September 16, 2009, 03:01:34 PM

Lads NAMA is simple. Fianna Fáil who lets not forget are the republican party have it all worked out . This is a secret plot for reunification. Rather than waste Billions on redeveloping Limerick the FF lads will simple ship the entire city north to 5 Billion worth of land the Irish government will soon own up North. Which lets faces at Northern land values is the vast majority of the North. With the influx of south Nationalist a boarder poll will be called and won in 2012. Just in time for the US , EU and IMF to give us Billions in a reintegration fund which will nicely plug the 100 Billion hole we will then have in our budget.