"this ridiculous NAMA plan"

[Declan]

£5 billion of NI assets for NAMA'
The Stormont Assembly was told today that almost £5 billion worth of assets due to be managed by the National Asset Management Agency are in Northern Ireland.
The North's power-sharing administration says it has received assurances from the Minister for Finance, Brian Lenihan, that there will be no 'fire sale' of Northern Ireland assets.
Northern Ministers met their southern counterparts in July, and last week Sammy Wilson held discussions with Brian Lenihan.

[ludermor]

I dont think anyone can forecast how NAMA will do because we dont even know the mechanics of how it will work. Desmond mentioned a figure of 60bn as a cost of NAMA and says it should instead be given to the banks to increase liquidity but would you be happy giving 60bn to the people who administered the whole mess in the first place?
The banks need to start lending fast, we have several big subbies ( turnover 5m plus a year) who have had their credit facilities constantly cut over the last 6 months and they would have very good credit ratings & history but they are getting very close to going to the wall are they cannot pay their suppliers. Things are very close to getting a whole lot worse now!

FF administrated the whole mess.

We do know the proposal and the mechanics of how it works. It is being debated in the Dail today.

No they did not! They have a lot to answer for but it was the banks who lent out the money. We dont know the bsics of how it is going to work!

[Croí na hÉireann]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

[ludermor]

That's a superb piece by Dermot Desmond. I couldn't argue with any of it. In fairness he has experience in the area unlike the gimps who are about to bury the country for a century or more with this ridiculous NAMA plan.

Guy - what is NAMA if its not a "double or bust bet"? NAMA will not succeed for many logical reasons and one of them is that the people running have no incentive whatsoever to make it work.

I just pray that something will happen to avoid us falling into this abyss.

I dont think anyone can forecast how NAMA will do because we dont even know the mechanics of how it will work. Desmond mentioned a figure of 60bn as a cost of NAMA and says it should instead be given to the banks to increase liquidity but would you be happy giving 60bn to the people who administered the whole mess in the first place?
The banks need to start lending fast, we have several big subbies ( turnover 5m plus a year) who have had their credit facilities constantly cut over the last 6 months and they would have very good credit ratings & history but they are getting very close to going to the wall are they cannot pay their suppliers. Things are very close to getting a whole lot worse now!

Are we not doing the same with NAMA except civil servants will be trying to clean up a mess they know nothing about? Now I know Desmond has his own agenda but I'd be marginally more confident having bankers (who stand to gain if they are successful) doing the repair work than a quango.

I have asked lots of people who is actually going to be working for NAMA and nobidy seems to know. They are bound to need a massive workforce if they are to sell off some site/developments and finish off lots more. Thye would have to employ nearly all new staff as 'normal' civil servant would nt have the first clue about the industry.

[ludermor]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Have they identified all the sites/deals/loans which this will cover?Will Carrol be covered?

[Croí na hÉireann]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Have they identified all the sites/deals/loans which this will cover?Will Carrol be covered?

€24bn of the assets would be purchased from Allied Irish Banks, €28bn from Anglo Irish Bank, €16bn from Bank of Ireland, €1bn from EBS and €8bn from Irish Nationwide.

Not sure if they mentioned Carroll specifically.

[Gnevin]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Have they identified all the sites/deals/loans which this will cover?Will Carrol be covered?

How is it you think Carol will be covered?

[ludermor]

IM looking at this selfishly!!! The job i am on at the minute has a block on hold until NAMA is resolved, not sure when we will find out ( and what it mean if it is!!)

[Gnevin]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

You and Hobbs have investigated this so?

[ludermor]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Have they identified all the sites/deals/loans which this will cover?Will Carrol be covered?

How is it you think Carol will be covered?

I dont think he will, i dont know if he will. Have you anything to add apart from smart comments? Carroll has loads of companies that are not dragged into the ACC issue so maybe you can advise me oh wise one.

[Croí na hÉireann]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

You and Hobbs have investigated this so?

Yep, we hired a Brother Seamus between us. Now must go and add in that disclaimer...

[Gnevin]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Have they identified all the sites/deals/loans which this will cover?Will Carrol be covered?

How is it you think Carol will be covered?

I dont think he will, i dont know if he will. Have you anything to add apart from smart comments? Carroll has loads of companies that are not dragged into the ACC issue so maybe you can advise me oh wise one.

Sorry I thought you were implying NAMA was some sort of bailout .

[muppet]

NAMA paying 54bn for a 77bn loan book, market value is 47bn (which will go down further), difference of 7bn, JOKE!!!

Have they identified all the sites/deals/loans which this will cover?Will Carrol be covered?

How is it you think Carol will be covered?

AIB or BOI will sort him out with ACC and then pass it on to NAMA.

[Tankie]

i gotta say i think that this is the best plan on the table at present.....i'd rather take a risk in the hope tha we get out of it over a risk that will drag the arse out of this recession as I am quite bored with it at this stage....and also i dont give a shite about our children paying for it as we can worry about that then but if we have a boom in the mean time we can clear that debt anyway...

[Capt Pat]

At the stage the banks should be allowed to go to the wall. There is no reason to keep them afloat but we are being forced to. Their decline should be managed so that their is not chaos in the Irish banking sector. New banks should be set up to replace them either government banks or privately run institutions. The bad  developers should be allowed go bankrupt and legally banned from working in property development and borrowing amounts over one million euro. The Irish bankers who gave them the money should be banned from working in the financial sector. In this way Ireland can say that we have cleaned up our act as a financial, development and banking entity. when the international banking sector come looking for their money they should be told to "go after the people you gave the money to. They are duds, rogue bankers, bankrupt property developers, why did you lend these people so much money." We the Irish government/people did not lend or borrow that money, you lent it and AIB/BoI/Property developers borrowed it.

Of course the international banking sector have a gun to our heads they will give us a bad credit rating and shut us out of the system casuing a lot of proplblems within our liquidity starved economy. The thing is, is the interanational banking community really as together as that? If we took the course of action I duggested, would the international banking community be cutting off its nose to spite its face by giving us a bad credit rating and refusing to lend money to Ireland. Would somebody not break ranks and say, hey why are we not lending money to Ireland when there is a good economy there and people who want to borrow money. So while none of the other international banks are lending money to Ireland one of these banks comes along and breaks the embargo and hoovers up all the money lending business in Ireland. Once the effective boycott is broken the others are left with no choice but to follow suit and take their previous losses in lending money to Ireland on the chin. Problem solved but a risky approach to take.

To the financial experts is the above scenario possible? Or is it just possible in my deranged mind?