Antrim Hurling

[Two Hands FFS]

When Loughgiel won the All Ireland in 1983 it had a positive affect on the county team and the game here in general.
This culminated in Antrim reaching an All Ireland final in 1989 under the leadership of Jim Nelson.
What's so different this time ?

We had far stronger club hurling just prior to Loughgiel win & obviously after it as well. There were more teams contesting for the Championship. The leagues & Feis were fiercely played for.

[Yeah]

Three 4 or 5 times a week, you wouldnt know it there on Sat. Pure crap they are.

[NAG1]

Three 4 or 5 times a week, you wouldnt know it there on Sat. Pure crap they are.

Am sure they will be glad of your extensive input!

[Yeah]

Yeah because your input has been great. Sometimes the truth hurts. Now I want those boys to do well this summer but the way things are going that isnt going to happen.

[NAG1]

Yeah because your input has been great. Sometimes the truth hurts. Now I want those boys to do well this summer but the way things are going that isnt going to happen.

Funny way of showing it coming on lambasting them, then admitting that you dont even know half the players.

[Milltown Row2]

Anyone got the article from Gaelic Life that talked about the difficulties of dual/college/working minors that are out 7 nights a week? Think Sambo had some input on it. think you need to be subscribed to it.

[Onthehill]

Poor poor result at the weekend, where do they go from here?

Lets be realistic we aren't in a position to think that we can just go to the likes of WM and take a handy win away. Their result against Galway last year should have alarm bells ringing but obviously not loud enough.

Jesus lads better not get to complacent here, these boys ran galway close last year, i know we tanked them at casement but they could be a different animal at home

I posted this last Thursday when most on here was saying we will win this pulling up. In hindsight this was always on the cards as a possible. we had selectors walking,bad turn outs in training and the manager storming of home from training. in the league this year v Clare,offaly and limerick we averaged 12 points per game and that's what scored again. we are 4 to 5 players short of a decent team mostly in the forwards. where to go from here, we just keep plugging away. Tomorrow night at training is going to be the most important session of the year, if the players all turn up have a chat and collectively take a good hard look at themselves and regroup for qualifiers. If there is anything in them you like to think they are a wounded animal at the minute. As for Jerry Wallis well the jury is out at the moment the players had to get him but now there not responding to him. He id maybe a good coach but management is a different kettle all together

Think we got the answer to this on saturday evening. Wallis hadnt a clue what to do. When he was appointed I was very hopeful of Antrim finally getting the right man, a man that players apparently thought very highly off. But his transition from coach to manager unfortunately hasnt worked out for him. There is fair bit of difference in the two roles. I give him to the end of the year and he'll be gone.

Antrim are by far more superior than WM. Fact. The players were brain washed into playing a gameplan that simply wasnt neccessary for WM. The result of this brainwash resulted in players being unable to express themselves as hurlers. Every ball that antrim won in the middle sector had to go into the corner, its as if they were told no shots unless within 30 yards of goal.
This resulted in repeated breakdowns of play and over passing the ball. For a wile I thought it was arsenal I was watching.

I hate to say it but I think we'll not have many more games to attend after the first qualifier if this continues.

[Milltown Row2]

Poor poor result at the weekend, where do they go from here?

Lets be realistic we aren't in a position to think that we can just go to the likes of WM and take a handy win away. Their result against Galway last year should have alarm bells ringing but obviously not loud enough.

Jesus lads better not get to complacent here, these boys ran galway close last year, i know we tanked them at casement but they could be a different animal at home

I posted this last Thursday when most on here was saying we will win this pulling up. In hindsight this was always on the cards as a possible. we had selectors walking,bad turn outs in training and the manager storming of home from training. in the league this year v Clare,offaly and limerick we averaged 12 points per game and that's what scored again. we are 4 to 5 players short of a decent team mostly in the forwards. where to go from here, we just keep plugging away. Tomorrow night at training is going to be the most important session of the year, if the players all turn up have a chat and collectively take a good hard look at themselves and regroup for qualifiers. If there is anything in them you like to think they are a wounded animal at the minute. As for Jerry Wallis well the jury is out at the moment the players had to get him but now there not responding to him. He id maybe a good coach but management is a different kettle all together

Think we got the answer to this on saturday evening. Wallis hadnt a clue what to do. When he was appointed I was very hopeful of Antrim finally getting the right man, a man that players apparently thought very highly off. But his transition from coach to manager unfortunately hasn't worked out for him. There is fair bit of difference in the two roles. I give him to the end of the year and he'll be gone.

Antrim are by far more superior than WM. Fact. The players were brain washed into playing a gameplan that simply wasn't necessary for WM. The result of this brainwash resulted in players being unable to express themselves as hurlers. Every ball that antrim won in the middle sector had to go into the corner, its as if they were told no shots unless within 30 yards of goal.
This resulted in repeated breakdowns of play and over passing the ball. For a wile I thought it was arsenal I was watching.

I hate to say it but I think we'll not have many more games to attend after the first qualifier if this continues.

Had Antrim been doing this in their last few games? Has this tactic worked when it mattered? All well and good trying this stuff in training games but actually doing it first time in Championship is a different thing altogether.

The few games I went to at Casement this year I thought that the team was playing as individuals and not playing as a unit. This can happen when up against the superior teams, less time on ball, chasing the game and being put under pressure can sometimes resort a team into playing like this.

Having not watched the WM game I can't say that was the same thing on Saturday. Though from the posts on here it seems as if this was the case (not playing as a unit that is).

When playing with the wind ya gotta get a big enough score up before halftime, Neil McManus on the end of the square can win his own ball and get goals and he's not afraid to go get them. with Watson and Shane running around to pick up break ball or win their own we could have knocked up a big score. Over cooking passes allow the other to get back and get tackles and hooks in. Sometimes direct hurling gets the bigger scores, not for the purists but results sometimes are all that matters

[gelvis]

Difference between the 83/89 sides and now was that there were far more teams capable of competing for the Championship in 83.  You had Loughgiel, Cushendall, Ballycastle, Rossa, Mitchells, Sarsfields all pushing hard, whereas now we only really have Loughgiel and Cushendall (Dunloy have slipped back and St Galls have pushed for two years and have almost caught the big boys napping.) 


In regards to Carson on the county squad, I think he deserves his shot.  If Jerry wants to play nice neat passing games, he's going to need a player to get the ball first to start it off and I think Carson has got (at least) this ability in his game.  He took his 3/4 points well v Ballycastle on Sunday by finding loads of space out on his wing.  Why can we not find a decent county standard half forward anymore???

A little note on the Cushendall v Ballycastle game:  Thought Brendan McSparran refereed it very well.  Kept up with the game, let the play flow, tried to play advantage and brought the free back when necessary.  Despite a couple of slaps off the ball, he dealt with them accordingly and got on with the game.

[glens73]

http://sport.irishexaminer.com/post/2012/05/21/Antrim-perspective-needed-on-Westmeath-loss.aspx

[imtommygunn]

Difference between the 83/89 sides and now was that there were far more teams capable of competing for the Championship in 83.  You had Loughgiel, Cushendall, Ballycastle, Rossa, Mitchells, Sarsfields all pushing hard, whereas now we only really have Loughgiel and Cushendall (Dunloy have slipped back and St Galls have pushed for two years and have almost caught the big boys napping.) 


In regards to Carson on the county squad, I think he deserves his shot.  If Jerry wants to play nice neat passing games, he's going to need a player to get the ball first to start it off and I think Carson has got (at least) this ability in his game.  He took his 3/4 points well v Ballycastle on Sunday by finding loads of space out on his wing.  Why can we not find a decent county standard half forward anymore???

A little note on the Cushendall v Ballycastle game:  Thought Brendan McSparran refereed it very well.  Kept up with the game, let the play flow, tried to play advantage and brought the free back when necessary.  Despite a couple of slaps off the ball, he dealt with them accordingly and got on with the game.

The pace of the game, the physicality of the game and the commitment required to compete at the top level has increased dramatically since 89 odd though so I'm not sure it's a like for like comparison.

The biggest thing you would have hoped for from Loughgiel winning the AI club would have been that it would give the players the belief to push on and compete with teams who we weren't competing with before. That, however, would have no bearing on a westmeath game.

The fact remains that the westmeath team we played last year were beaten with ease - it wasn't like it was a tight game as they were in a different class. You can say this, that and the other about what players should be picked but at the end of the day it's very similar playing personnel to last year give or take a few - that is the biggest worry about this game.

[Fairhead]

Where to start........

First half while not great wasn't all bad. Couple of nice scores taken. Couple of players seemed to be struggling with the pace of the game.

Second half was just awful. To be slightly fair to the players they were trying to carry out the tactic that the manager wanted them to work on. We just sat back and waited for Westmeath to come at us. I hate seeing a spare man used so defensively. Should have used the spare man around the middle where we were really struggling to get a hold of the ball.

Shane really struggled after getting that hit in the first half and wasn't the same. Neil McA and Eddie looked as if they were struggling with fitness. Ball going into Watson was put way out to the corner and by the time he got it, there was little he could do. I thought Darren Hamill was harshly taken off, and was streets ahead of the whole half forward who were all brutal. Neil McM was good in the first half but was trying to overplay in the second. Even DD didn't look comfortable, I have never seen him blocking down so many high balls. Subs should have been made earlier.

As regards to the fight with Watson and not backing him up. It was completely off the ball and not many would have seen it. Deliberate tactic by WM. As soon as it was noticed Hippy, Shane and McFall were straight onto the scene as proven by RTE last night. Sambo entered the ptich to assist Watson with a bit of a tussle late in the second half so some boys are full of shit. I thought some of the WM players, officials and some supporters in the stands were animals

Our game last night v Ballycastle was a real good game. Some good scores. Ballycastle were very direct in getting the ball into their FF line. We struggled first 10 minutes or so but got to grips shortly after. Conor Carson has been excellent in the last few games for us and game Pinky a torrid time, hitting about 3/4 points. With Hippy back for the next game I would say Carson should be moved up. If JW took the opinions of Colly McFall senior and Sambo seriously he would have been told how good CC was last night and in recent games at wing forward.

I seen the clip on The Sunday Game too and i can see why your saying what your saying. However it didnt show the whole clip and at the game i seen it developing from the Wm manager telling one player to get stuck in to Liam Watson and i thought the Antrim team were slow to respond as it developed.

Totally agree with you about the locals in the stand they were a coarse lot but they took their lead from their manager who did a lot of ranting and raving. In saying that in the 2nd half when they got going they hurled well and they will only get better. Their minors ran Kilkenny to 2 points in the Leinster championship last year but then still got through the back door to the semi final where a late Dublin goal meant a 6 point loss for Wm. Antrim arent competing like that in the minor championship and so could find it more and more diffficult to beat Westmeath in the next few years.

Its all fine and well to have a game plan and you could see Antrim were trying to play to one but when the game is sliping away you surely have to do something to get over the line rather than stick to the gameplan? There didnt seem to be any urgency or realisation that they were going to get caught on Saturday which i was disappointed and bemused about.

[johnneycool]

Gameplans take years to ingrain into a team, not weeks or even months and the first sign of a team coming under serious pressure will tell you how far a gameplan has evolved as most hurlers will revert to instinct, what they've been relying on since they were U-14's, minor etc. It's human nature. If the Antrim team did stick to the gameplan and it didn't work then there'll be major doubts in the players minds about that gameplan and that's never good!

That's always been the worry for me about outside managers, they've tried something with a certain team and it maybe was pretty successful, Wallace may have been part of the Cork set ups when their running/ handpassing game was going well, but that was then with a Newtownshandrum team who'd been playing it for years and natural athletes such as Tom Kenny, Sean O'g and so on to supplement them.

You can't just take that model and impose it on a new group of lads who've never played anything like it before and expect it to work within months.

IMO Antrim have barring the Jim Nelson and Dinny Cahill era's played a very individualistic type game, relying on individuals ability to get them over the line. That'll work against Down, Derry and the likes of Laois, Westmeath, Carlow more often than not, but it won't work beyond that.
What Cahill was good at (as I've been on the receiving end) was setting his teams up to get the best out of them, he worked with what he had, knew their strengths and weaknesses and set them up accordingly and to my mind thats what a good manager should be doing.

[saffron89]

have to agree with Johneycool

Wallace and the Cork running game, can hardly think of a worse tatic for Antrim hurling.  we must keep it as simplistic as possible, due to the fact we simply have not got the personnel.

was at the game on saturday.  Watson was starved of possession to a degree, but it wasn't as if goals beat us.  Playing the spare man in front of carson was almost more of a hindrance to us.  Carson was reasonable by the way, certainly not the worst.  Some forwards simply not up to it, one in  particular was shocking with his shooting and wide count.  Finally taken off, The saffrons need to move quick ball in as fast as possible, short passing and possession no chance.

Like i say Jerry needs to get the finger out

[btdtgtt]

Yes I agree - it's very much a case of looking at the best players at your disposal and then deciding on the gameplan / tactics.
The old saying you have to cut your cloth accordingly etc.

If Wallace thought he could bring in the Cork mantra in Antrim it is not the case.

I think we're all agreed that the return of the Shamrocks was detrimental - again whether that may be becasue of their attitude or others
jealousy is irrelevant - it's up to Wallace to manage this!

Perhaps two major failings which as someone else suggested - the difference between a coach and a manager?

That said, I have just fallen into the trap which i hate - blaming management!
For me when any team loses they have got to look at themselves first. From what I can gather this team have let the everyone down both on and off the pitch.

I read the article from the Examiner blog also - fair points.
If this is true then maybe we (myself included) have got to accept this as our level. We would have to accept that Westmeath / Carlow / Laois is our level?

Time will tell I suppose!