South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club

[nifan]

Lies?
So you're saying that the 6 county statelet fans are NOT sectarian and the IFA have clamped down on them?

Some are some arent. You think any other large diverse group here is different?

[Rossfan]

. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the  IFA situation.

Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

[MW]

The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".

It's there to represent Northern Ireland.

Is the Ireland rugby team there to represent two traditions, or just Ireland as a whole?

It emphatically isn't there to "represent two traditions". It's there to represent Ireland*.


(*in case there's any ambiguity, I mean the island, clearly, not the state of the same name and some of the same territory)

[MW]

. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the  IFA situation.

Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

And the Union Flag is the national flag of, say for argument's sake, 55%.

If someone wants to proclaim allegiance to the RoI's Tricolour in the field of international football, there's a team called the Republic of Ireland that does just that.

(And if someone wants to proclaim allegiance to the Union Flag in the field of international football, they can campaign for a UK team...until then, tough s**t)

[MW]

It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.

Or even better, just disappeared completely.

No, I wouldn't. I think that a balance can be struck between waving Union Jacks all over the place and playing GSTQ and/or similar republican displays of national identity. If the stated ethos of the IFA is to respect diversity then perhaps the fact that the majority of nationalists now vote for a republican party who believe in an Irish cultural identity and equal rights for a Catholic religiom. If this same party is willing to stand in a 'Northern Ireland' assembly then I see no reason why the Northern Ireland football team cannot change its stance on anthems to a neutral or 'diverse' one. It seemed to get up-to-date on the passport issue quickly enough so I see no contradiction in getting up-to-date with everything else.

Who's "waving Union Jacks all over the place"?

Holding up SF as some sort of example is a very bad idea - you're pointing out that its voters vote for a party whose representatives, pathetically (given that it supported the Good Friday Agreement, sits in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the Northern Ireland Executive, and has a deputy leader who is deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland), can't even bring themselves to say the words "Northern Ireland". People such as these representatives can't, I would posit, be brought to a position much better than not expressing open hostility to the NI team.

I've no problem changing GSTQ as the anthem, BTW - been advocating it for years.

[dillinger]

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
[/quote]

Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist

[Maguire01]

I offer for your consideration this view from a contributor to the Belfast Telegraph. It is a rather damning indictment of the IFA don't you think?

"The Northern Ireland team represents a fragment of a fragmented part of a fragmented island. It is not an all embracing team like the Irish Rugby team that has a following from different social and political classes. It is sectarian to the core, a team whose followers have atually threatened some of its own star players. What more can be said ? In the north there are two national teams, NI & The ROI. Bewildering to many people from other countries. This issues is just not worth losing sleep over, better to enjoy what can be achieved in rugby when intelligence overrides tribal sectarianism."

Posted by S Ó Cearbhaill | 14.08.09, 14:15 GMT

Surely someone who writes as many letters to papers as you do would realise that it's no great achievement to have your letter published. Just because the Telegraph published it doesn't make it 'right' - it's still just one person's opinion. A letter in a daily rag is no more valid than a post on his thread!

Also, quite amusing that you post this letter, yet don't seem to agree with the last line yourself - i.e. don't get angry about such things, just ignore them. Shameful too that the author of such a letter references the "NI" "national team", surely?

[Rossfan]

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist
[/quote]


I never mentioned Religion.
Nationalists of whatever Church have only one National Flag ...the Green/White/Orange Tricolour.
Not too sure about Unionists ....between the old Stormont Flag and the Butch....Union Jack I assume they have 2 National Flags( i.e depending on whether they see the 6 Cos as a Country(sic) or a Province(even more sic) or whatever...

[020304 Tir Eoghain]

. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the  IFA situation.

Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% 48% of the people of the Six Counties.

[dillinger]

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist

I never mentioned Religion.
Nationalists of whatever Church have only one National Flag ...the Green/White/Orange Tricolour.
Not too sure about Unionists ....between the old Stormont Flag and the Butch....Union Jack I assume they have 2 National Flags( i.e depending on whether they see the 6 Cos as a Country(sic) or a Province(even more sic) or whatever...
[/quote]

Well what is the 45% about then?

[020304 Tir Eoghain]

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist
[/quote]

[dillinger]

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist

[/quote]

A dig at my spelling? cutch yuself onn

[020304 Tir Eoghain]

The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.

Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist

A dig at my spelling? cutch yuself onn
[/quote]

nah, whats the point!

[dillinger]

what 45 %

[stibhan]

It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.

Or even better, just disappeared completely.

No, I wouldn't. I think that a balance can be struck between waving Union Jacks all over the place and playing GSTQ and/or similar republican displays of national identity. If the stated ethos of the IFA is to respect diversity then perhaps the fact that the majority of nationalists now vote for a republican party who believe in an Irish cultural identity and equal rights for a Catholic religiom. If this same party is willing to stand in a 'Northern Ireland' assembly then I see no reason why the Northern Ireland football team cannot change its stance on anthems to a neutral or 'diverse' one. It seemed to get up-to-date on the passport issue quickly enough so I see no contradiction in getting up-to-date with everything else.

Who's "waving Union Jacks all over the place"?

Holding up SF as some sort of example is a very bad idea - you're pointing out that its voters vote for a party whose representatives, pathetically (given that it supported the Good Friday Agreement, sits in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the Northern Ireland Executive, and has a deputy leader who is deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland), can't even bring themselves to say the words "Northern Ireland". People such as these representatives can't, I would posit, be brought to a position much better than not expressing open hostility to the NI team.

I've no problem changing GSTQ as the anthem, BTW - been advocating it for years.

Union Jacks are to be seen everywhere in Windsor Park at most games from what I've seen on the television. The Ulster Banner is used as well, which is at least equally offensive. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one because I must flick over to see the score at the most inconvenient times.

I would 'posit' that most of the voters in Sinn Fein wouldn't have much trouble using the term Northern Ireland--I'll admit to preferring 'North of Ireland' but nomenclature is a petty subject. Get rid of the anti-Catholic atmosphere, or the perceptions of an anti-Catholic atmosphere, and there would be goodwill from all sides. Loyalist sticks and stones may break my bones but 'Northern Ireland' will never hurt me.