Dublin - Where to from here?

[JMohan]

What do Dublin do?

I thought Gilroy was on the right track but he's had a set back.

So what do they do now?
Get rid of Gilroy? Don't think that's the answer.
Who is the backroom team?

Scrap most of the team and start from scratch?

Look at an outside man longer term? Boylan as U21 manager?

[Zapatista]

They could take a look at the work being done in Hurling in the County.

[rrhf]

That question has been answered. 

[Hound]

Its going to be hard to have a clearout when the best players we have are all playing! Excluding the old timers Whelo and Shane, there was nothing on the bench any better than was on the field.

Something will have to change at midfield. Darren Magee is only 27, but I think its well proven at this stage that he's not up to top level intercounty football. McConnell and Flynn are only 23/24 - both are decent footballers and I think both will come on from their first full season around the middle the park. Fennell has been injured most of the year, but I expect to see more of him next year.

Bryan Cullen is still only 25. He lacks the pace and stamina to be a wing back. He has to be in the centre or off the field. I'm loath to consign him to the scrapheap given he hasn't reached his peak yet, but still I don't think I'd trust him at 6 either. Could he do a job at full back?

Henry and Bastick both 28. Both exposed v Kerry, but IMO a lot of that had to do with no pressure on the ball coming in. Gooch is unmarkable when on form and getting good ball. Bastick has still only had about 6 months experience at playing full back. He'll only improve and he will generally do well against orthodox full forwards - its when the opposition change tactics that we'll need a plan B.

Barry Cahill is about 28 I think, and in my opinion, for the 2nd year in a row, has been Dublin's best most consistent player. Lynchbhoy has previously given the opinion he'd make a very good midfielder - not sure about that but he'll be a regular for another couple of years also. Paul Griffin at 26 had a good year too, and I hope he retains the captaincy, but in future we'll have to ensure he's marking the best opposition forward (whether that be in the half back or full back line) as he's our best marker/defender by a country mile in my opinion.

Paddy Andrews only 21, but the management have to decide what his best position is. Personally I don't think he's good enough for our full forward line (in that we've at least 3 better than him), but he should be good enough for some other position.

Other defenders to come in - O'Sullivan, Nolan, O'Carroll, Hubbard... Oh, and Ger Brennan will presumably be back in the reckoning.

Personally I think we should stick with a full forward line of Brogan - Davoren - Brogan. With Connolly at 14 until Davoren has regained fitness then form. Connolly is a super talent, but IMO only really produces is at intercounty level when at full forward. He's too lacksadasical / doesn't have the powers of concentration (or so it seems to me) to play out the field. Keaney has had a disappointing year, another who does far too many stupid things.

We don't have any proper half forwards that I know of, and that's been a problem for a few years now.

I still think we're well good enough to win Leinster, but see littlle hope of a breathrough at All Ireland level. Management will need to pull something extraordinary out of the hat.

[INDIANA]

Sorry Hound- have to disagree there. Mc Connell is nowhere near ther answer at midfield at inter county level-  He's not good enough for that level in my view. Fennell is worth a shot but his club situation is of his own doing.

Cullen is  a central player- his move to wing back last Sunday after excelling at centre back in the leinster final-Is there anybody here that would have put him wing back after his performance in the leinster final? Mind boggles there. Could be an option at wing forward.

Bastcik shouldn't be discarded yet. He didn't do any worse than anybody else. But he needs to cut out the hard man shit because he's not cute enough to be a hard man and get away with it. Cian O Sullivan though should be tried at 3 as well.

David Henry is a wing back and probably should be tried there. He' s not a natural corner back.

Cahill is an out and out wing back. and should be left there. One of the few players we have.

Griff is a fine player but he's not a captain IMO. Not sure he's a 6 either. Just think he's too nice at times but is too good to get rid off. Probably a wing back again.

Paddy andrews is in the top 5 club forwards in Dublin. If he can't get into the forwards he shouldn't be playing. But i think IMO he would have an excellent chance of getting in.  Why he's playing corner back is a mystery. Some experiment that was concocted on wet slow heavy pitches playing Sigerson for DCU. Look at DCU's Sigerson record- moving swiftly on............

Brennan offers us something different in the half back line. Mighn't be everyone's cup of tea but he offers physicality and aggression and we had none of that on Monday.

Davoren should come into the reckoning again but having watched Kerry yesterday- the big full forward thing is gradually going out of the game.

Agreed on Connolly- he's just not a half forward. Full forward line or not at all. But he's  a natural.

Flynn probbaly worth another 12 months at wing forward- options wise in the half forwards we are struggling hugely.

Others to come in - Dean rock- son of barney - class act. Hugh Gill is another.

Probably going to be a fair few retirements. Looking at 3-4 years at least.

[DuffleKing]

Is there not an obvious point that we're missing here. Certainly Gilroy is the manager in name and fronts the opertaion but whelan is the man making all the decisions. It's whelan's training and tactics (or lack of).

[stephenite]

Davoren should come into the reckoning again but having watched Kerry yesterday- the big full forward thing is gradually going out of the game.

It's not a fashion statement that goes out of vogue because Donaghy is injured, if Davoren is good enough (and I think he is) and has the players around him to service him/feed off him right it will work

[DuffleKing]

But davoran doesn't play like a big man, big and all as he is. he wants the ball in front of him and is about mobility and speed.

[stephenite]

But davoran doesn't play like a big man, big and all as he is. he wants the ball in front of him and is about mobility and speed.

He can do both

[DuffleKing]

I've always felt he lacks agression and strength but obviously strength can be added to his game. never see him field too many dropping balls around the penalty spot ala clarke or donaghy, or have the capacity to hold a full back off and break the ball intelligently

[DandyMan]

I find it difficult to believe that we are as bad as we were on Monday. I fully accept that we were absolutely hammered out of sight on the day and I have no complaints whatsoever. However, just as Kerry didn't become a great side overnight, neither did we become a bad side in a couple of weeks. Most people felt that the Leinster Final was one of the best games for a long time. Kildare, with a little more experience and self-belief could have turned over Tyrone on Sunday.It confirms that we are behind the likes of Kerry, Tyrone and Cork ( I would not fancy us against them). We would beat Mayo or Meath however. This, leaves us in my opinion as the fourth best team in Ireland - but still off the pace.

I give credit to Kerry for identifying weaknesses in the Dublin team - particularly in the back lines. What worried me was the fact that Kerry were two yards faster to the ball on every occasion. Were we over-trained? Did we peak for the Leinster final and fail to pace ourselves for the business end of the season? A similar pattern occurred last season in the Tyrone game. Could it be that Kerry have focused their training for the business end of the season? They were not fully fired up for the Cork games in the Munster championship and despite what commentators have said, I felt that they were never going to lose in the qualifiers. They had an extra gear if needed and they delivered. The media speculation about "trouble in the camp" only served to take the pressure of them.

Where does Dublin go from here? It is the end for Sherlock (never really delivered over the years in the key games - apart from 1995). Bastick is not a full back and has to go. Likewise McConnell and Magee at midfield - not good enough for the pressure games. Brennan has to come back -if he can curb his temper. Daveron should come in when fit. I would move Cahill to centre back. That leaves us with three or four players to find in key positions i.e. full back, midfield and in the half-back line. The two other Brogans may come into contention (James and Paul - I don't know enough about them). Likewise Eamonn Fennell should be given a long run in the league.

Who will win the All-Ireland? I fancy the winners of the Cork v Tyrone semi-final. I am not convinced that Kerry have suddenly become "great" again. Cork have been the most consistent team - marginally ahead of Tyrone all season.

Here's to Championship 2010!

[Son_of_Sam]

I find it difficult to believe that we are as bad as we were on Monday. I fully accept that we were absolutely hammered out of sight on the day and I have no complaints whatsoever. However, just as Kerry didn't become a great side overnight, neither did we become a bad side in a couple of weeks. Most people felt that the Leinster Final was one of the best games for a long time. Kildare, with a little more experience and self-belief could have turned over Tyrone on Sunday.It confirms that we are behind the likes of Kerry, Tyrone and Cork ( I would not fancy us against them). We would beat Mayo NOT A HOPE or Meath however. This, leaves us in my opinion as the fourth best team in Ireland NOT A HOPE - but still off the pace TRUE.

I give credit to Kerry for identifying weaknesses in the Dublin team - particularly in the back lines. What worried me was the fact that Kerry were two yards faster to the ball on every occasion. Were we over-trained? Did we peak for the Leinster final and fail to pace ourselves for the business end of the season? A similar pattern occurred last season in the Tyrone game. Could it be that Kerry have focused their training for the business end of the season? They were not fully fired up for the Cork games in the Munster championship and despite what commentators have said, I felt that they were never going to lose in the qualifiers. They had an extra gear if needed and they delivered. The media speculation about "trouble in the camp" only served to take the pressure of them.

Where does Dublin go from here? It is the end for Sherlock (never really delivered over the years in the key games - apart from 1995). Bastick is not a full back and has to go. Likewise McConnell and Magee at midfield - not good enough for the pressure games. Brennan has to come back -if he can curb his temper. Daveron should come in when fit. I would move Cahill to centre back. That leaves us with three or four players to find in key positions i.e. full back, midfield and in the half-back line. The two other Brogans may come into contention (James and Paul - I don't know enough about them). Likewise Eamonn Fennell should be given a long run in the league.

Who will win the All-Ireland? I fancy the winners of the Cork v Tyrone semi-final. I am not convinced that Kerry have suddenly become "great" again. Cork have been the most consistent team - marginally ahead of Tyrone all season.

Here's to Championship 2010!

For Gods sake leave down reading that Irish Star rubbish.

[JMohan]

I find it difficult to believe that we are as bad as we were on Monday. I fully accept that we were absolutely hammered out of sight on the day and I have no complaints whatsoever. However, just as Kerry didn't become a great side overnight, neither did we become a bad side in a couple of weeks. Most people felt that the Leinster Final was one of the best games for a long time. Kildare, with a little more experience and self-belief could have turned over Tyrone on Sunday.It confirms that we are behind the likes of Kerry, Tyrone and Cork ( I would not fancy us against them). We would beat Mayo or Meath however. This, leaves us in my opinion as the fourth best team in Ireland - but still off the pace.

I give credit to Kerry for identifying weaknesses in the Dublin team - particularly in the back lines. What worried me was the fact that Kerry were two yards faster to the ball on every occasion. Were we over-trained? Did we peak for the Leinster final and fail to pace ourselves for the business end of the season? A similar pattern occurred last season in the Tyrone game. Could it be that Kerry have focused their training for the business end of the season? They were not fully fired up for the Cork games in the Munster championship and despite what commentators have said, I felt that they were never going to lose in the qualifiers. They had an extra gear if needed and they delivered. The media speculation about "trouble in the camp" only served to take the pressure of them.

Where does Dublin go from here? It is the end for Sherlock (never really delivered over the years in the key games - apart from 1995). Bastick is not a full back and has to go. Likewise McConnell and Magee at midfield - not good enough for the pressure games. Brennan has to come back -if he can curb his temper. Daveron should come in when fit. I would move Cahill to centre back. That leaves us with three or four players to find in key positions i.e. full back, midfield and in the half-back line. The two other Brogans may come into contention (James and Paul - I don't know enough about them). Likewise Eamonn Fennell should be given a long run in the league.

Who will win the All-Ireland? I fancy the winners of the Cork v Tyrone semi-final. I am not convinced that Kerry have suddenly become "great" again. Cork have been the most consistent team - marginally ahead of Tyrone all season.

Here's to Championship 2010!

I think Dublin would beat Mayo (tight) and Meath
I think Dublin are still a decent team

I was surprised too that Kerry were so much faster to the ball - markedly so in fact!

[JMohan]

Is there not an obvious point that we're missing here. Certainly Gilroy is the manager in name and fronts the opertaion but whelan is the man making all the decisions. It's whelan's training and tactics (or lack of).

Is that the truth?
And I've only heard good things about Whelan to date in all fairness to him

[Jinxy]

I would say move Henry to wing-back, Cahill to CB (where he was excellent in 2005) and have Brennan on the other wing.
FB line of O'Carroll, O'Sullivan and Griffin.
MF of Fennell and Ryan.
HF line of A Brogan, Cullen and Flynn.
FF line of B Brogan, Davoren and Keaney.

Get a settled FB line and give them games during the league.
Time to bring the next generation through.