Mayo Vs Meath - All-Ireland Quarter Finals

[agorm]

I actually agree with that, we're not that far away but it's going to take a hell of a lot of effort to bridge the gap to Kerry/Tyrone/Cork

Yep, thats where the hard work comes in. Look at Kildare one year on from last year. Same players, same management BUT different work ethic, ie
fight for everything, give your all for the jersey, leave everything on the field. McGeeneys & Grimleys input. Was there a radical change in the Kildare
CB's philosophy in 12 months? Did the GAA at grassroots level change dramatically in Kildare overnight? I dont know, maybe some of the Kildare lads
could answer that, but personally i would think not. Its all about working to a system that suits the players you have at your disposal & sticking to it.

In all fairness mate Kildare got to the last 8 last year and repeated the dose again. They got close to Tyrone but so we did we in 2005 and it didn't do us any good. You either win or lsoe at this level and when you get the cvhance to beat the top 3 you have to take it. None of Kildare, Mayo or Dublin have been able to do so.

Nail on the head there Indy. We had a good year in comparison to our recent campaigns but we fell short against both Dublin and Tyrone when it really mattered. Pundits will pay Kildare lip-service at the end of this year but unless we actually achieve something next year (i.e. beating one of the big teams) we will be in danger of falling back into the pack again. Monaghan are an example of this - everyone gave them great credit for putting it up to Kerry two years in a row but the reality is that they lost both those matches and now most people would agree that they've fallen back this year.

While Kildare's improvement can be in part attributed to McGeeney, Grimley and Carew's management, I think people have underestimated how the work that has been done at underage level (u21 in particular) has helped bring on our senior team. Kavanagh, Flynn, Corley, Foley, Flanagan, Kelly and O'Neill were all on the u21 teams of 04/05 which won and contested Leinster Finals. Smith, McGrillen and Gary White were on the u21 panel that reached the All-Ireland final last year. We neglected our underage structures during the O'Dwyer era but that was addressed at the turn of the decade and we're beginning to reap the benefits of that now.

It is too easy to say that simply working harder will help counties like Mayo, Dublin and Kildare bridge the gap to the Kerry's and Tyrone's of this world. It undoubtedly is a factor, but most counties have similar training regimes nowadays and I don't think the likes of Tyrone are as far ahead in this regard as they might have been three or four years ago. I think the psychology and mentality of players is a factor cannot be overlooked. If you take Sunday's match, there is nobody that will convince me that this current Meath team are a better footballing side than Mayo but the contrast in the psyche of both counties is massive. The Mayo players froze when the match was there for the taking while the Meath lads stood up and believed that they could win. It was a similar story with ourselves last week against Tyrone. We were well equipped to beat them but when it came down to it in the last few minutes we kicked four bad wides which could have won us the game. History is a heavy burden on the likes of Mayo and Kildare and that will always be the case until they finally make the breakthrough and lose the psychological baggage.

I am not sure that you are correct there. Meath have better scoring forwards than Mayo, the 2 Brays, Sheridan, Farrell, Cian Ward, Byrne. 6 forwards all of whom can naturally score. Followed up by Queeny and Sheridan's brother Brian - 2 more players that know where the posts are. I hadnt really seen Mayo before last weekend but having seen them in action dont think the Mayo forward lne are even close to these guys. Meath are not the finished article and need to develop defensively, especially on the full back line if they are to challenge the big three and Kildare (whom I think are 4th at the moment)

Perhaps with the development of Aidan O'Shea and the underage teams Mayo will progress and they do seem to be in a better position than they were in 1996. At least JOM will accept that they were beaten by the better team, well I think he will anyway. I always said, and I previously wrote it here that if you do not accept your failings then you wont know what to improve - Mayo 1996 being a case in point. Thus they never reallly got to grips with their failings and were hockeyed subsequently.

If JOM goes back to the drawing board and and accepts that ye came up significantly short this year he can improve things especially with good underage teams coming through. They seem to have better emerging talent than most counties including Meath and there is definite hop for the future if managed correctly.

[Tubberman]

I'm only back in the office today, but having read through the last few pages I think it's all been said.
A very disappointing result from our point of view. Yes, some big decisions went against us but that shouldn't (and in fairness, it isn't) be used as an excuse for why Mayo lost and Meath won.
When Meath scored the penalty the game was there for the team that wanted it most and had the cofidence, courage and determination to make it happen. That team was Meath.
We didn't win near enough of the ball around the middle which left our defence under a lot of pressure and they were given a bit of a roasting at times.
There was an awful lot of players losing their footing on the pitch e.g. Keith Higgins for first Meath goal. For some reason there was a lot more slipping in the football than in the hurling, maybe it was the boots.
Anyway, well done Meath, best of luck in the semi. From a Mayo point of view, if we can't beat Meath (and no disrespect intended to the Royals) then we weren't going to win an All-Ireland and more than likely weren't going to beat Kerry.
Lets hope the minors can keep the flag flying, and that we have a good club championship.   

[SLIGONIAN]

I didnt see the game but one thing mentioned below was players slipping at vital stages, just for the record some of kerry players wore rugby boot style cogs for extra grip against Dublin. Alot of emotion on this thread but whether ye believe me or not yer not far away
and there'll come a time when ye'll just do it and wont know why, i was sure this yr was it though. For next yr Kerry are in decline, gave far to many teams a chance this yr, they lifted it for Dublin but I wouldnt be overwhelmed by that and if Tyrone win it again This yr it would be impossible for them to be as hungry next yr imo.

OMahony artilce from Independant.ie By Colm Keys

Wants to see refs assesers markings on Cavan ref

Tuesday August 11 2009

Mayo manager John O'Mahony feels the GAA should consider making assessments of referees public as an exercise in transparency.

O'Mahony believes such a practice would afford "greater respect" for the business of refereeing and help understand decision-making better.

Referees are subject to an assessment of their performances in championship and league games by assessors in the stands and greatly appreciate the feedback.

But O'Mahony believes that the feedback should also be given to other stakeholders affected by decisions made.

O'Mahony says he would be keen to read the assessment of referee Joe McQuillan and his officials after Mayo's All-Ireland quarter-final to Meath last Sunday.

"Sunday's game is gone and I don't like making excuses. When the game was up for grabs it was Meath who reached highest and we have to deal with that. But there were issues with the handling of the game.

"I didn't realise at the time that so many controversial decisions had been made. In real time, with the view that I had at ground level, I felt it was a penalty and obviously so too with the referee. But looking back on it the decision was harsh," concluded O'Mahony.

He also referred to the '45' awarded to Meath which led to their first score from Cian Ward, the sideline that came off Joe Sheridan that led to the penalty award and Alan Dillon's kick that appeared to be taken over the line by Meath goalkeeper Paddy O'Rourke as decisions that went against Mayo.

"For the '45' the referee appeared to overrule the umpire and the sideline looked fairly clearcut that it was ours. The ball that may have been carried across the line was a difficult call in real time," he conceded.

"But these are the decisions that sometimes influence games. It's just a pity there appeared to be so many of them.

"My only interest now would be to see the assessment through whatever internal means there are within the GAA."

O'Mahony believes referees should be held to account in the same way as players and managers are.

Dropped

"If you make a mistake as a player you are liable to be dropped, a manager can easily lose his job. Making assessments available would assist the process better," O'Mahony feels.

"I've seen Premiership referees come out after games and admit mistakes and there is something refreshing about that," he said.

"This has been broached before but when there are so many controversial decisions I feel it's important for the GAA to make assessments available."

O'Mahony also made reference to the triple hop by Peadar Gardiner ,highlighted by Kevin McStay on the 'Sunday Game', which McQuillan blew a free against Gardiner for.

The rules governing the hop are slightly ambiguous but, in Gardiner's case, O'Mahony believes the pitch had a strong bearing.

"Whatever rain fell beforehand made the pitch very slippy. In Peadar's case, he just wasn't able to control the ball because of it."

The surface for the first half of the football quarter-final was greasy with players from both sides finding it difficult to keep their feet.

"For the first Meath goal, Keith Higgins lost his footing and I'd say that was down to the pitch. Trevor Howley also went down for a Meath point. But Meath players went down too and we were able to take advantage of that. It was far from ideal however."

The instruction from the Mayo management to the players was to wear longer cogs but even then keeping balance proved difficult.

"The same problem was prevalent a few years ago but was sorted out," recalled O'Mahony.

O'Mahony is keen to remain on as manager once all parties are satisfied with the arrangement but Sunday's defeat was bitterly disappointing.

He feels Meath will "relish the opportunity" of facing Kerry now. "It's a situation Mayo would have relished too because whoever won our quarter-final would not be given a chance.

"Kerry would have to be superhuman to produce two performances like that which they served up against Dublin," he figured.

[INDIANA]

I actually agree with that, we're not that far away but it's going to take a hell of a lot of effort to bridge the gap to Kerry/Tyrone/Cork

Yep, thats where the hard work comes in. Look at Kildare one year on from last year. Same players, same management BUT different work ethic, ie
fight for everything, give your all for the jersey, leave everything on the field. McGeeneys & Grimleys input. Was there a radical change in the Kildare
CB's philosophy in 12 months? Did the GAA at grassroots level change dramatically in Kildare overnight? I dont know, maybe some of the Kildare lads
could answer that, but personally i would think not. Its all about working to a system that suits the players you have at your disposal & sticking to it.

In all fairness mate Kildare got to the last 8 last year and repeated the dose again. They got close to Tyrone but so we did we in 2005 and it didn't do us any good. You either win or lsoe at this level and when you get the cvhance to beat the top 3 you have to take it. None of Kildare, Mayo or Dublin have been able to do so.

Nail on the head there Indy. We had a good year in comparison to our recent campaigns but we fell short against both Dublin and Tyrone when it really mattered. Pundits will pay Kildare lip-service at the end of this year but unless we actually achieve something next year (i.e. beating one of the big teams) we will be in danger of falling back into the pack again. Monaghan are an example of this - everyone gave them great credit for putting it up to Kerry two years in a row but the reality is that they lost both those matches and now most people would agree that they've fallen back this year.

While Kildare's improvement can be in part attributed to McGeeney, Grimley and Carew's management, I think people have underestimated how the work that has been done at underage level (u21 in particular) has helped bring on our senior team. Kavanagh, Flynn, Corley, Foley, Flanagan, Kelly and O'Neill were all on the u21 teams of 04/05 which won and contested Leinster Finals. Smith, McGrillen and Gary White were on the u21 panel that reached the All-Ireland final last year. We neglected our underage structures during the O'Dwyer era but that was addressed at the turn of the decade and we're beginning to reap the benefits of that now.

It is too easy to say that simply working harder will help counties like Mayo, Dublin and Kildare bridge the gap to the Kerry's and Tyrone's of this world. It undoubtedly is a factor, but most counties have similar training regimes nowadays and I don't think the likes of Tyrone are as far ahead in this regard as they might have been three or four years ago. I think the psychology and mentality of players is a factor cannot be overlooked. If you take Sunday's match, there is nobody that will convince me that this current Meath team are a better footballing side than Mayo but the contrast in the psyche of both counties is massive. The Mayo players froze when the match was there for the taking while the Meath lads stood up and believed that they could win. It was a similar story with ourselves last week against Tyrone. We were well equipped to beat them but when it came down to it in the last few minutes we kicked four bad wides which could have won us the game. History is a heavy burden on the likes of Mayo and Kildare and that will always be the case until they finally make the breakthrough and lose the psychological baggage.

I am not sure that you are correct there. Meath have better scoring forwards than Mayo, the 2 Brays, Sheridan, Farrell, Cian Ward, Byrne. 6 forwards all of whom can naturally score. Followed up by Queeny and Sheridan's brother Brian - 2 more players that know where the posts are. I hadnt really seen Mayo before last weekend but having seen them in action dont think the Mayo forward lne are even close to these guys. Meath are not the finished article and need to develop defensively, especially on the full back line if they are to challenge the big three and Kildare (whom I think are 4th at the moment)

Perhaps with the development of Aidan O'Shea and the underage teams Mayo will progress and they do seem to be in a better position than they were in 1996. At least JOM will accept that they were beaten by the better team, well I think he will anyway. I always said, and I previously wrote it here that if you do not accept your failings then you wont know what to improve - Mayo 1996 being a case in point. Thus they never reallly got to grips with their failings and were hockeyed subsequently.

If JOM goes back to the drawing board and and accepts that ye came up significantly short this year he can improve things especially with good underage teams coming through. They seem to have better emerging talent than most counties including Meath and there is definite hop for the future if managed correctly.

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

[ludermor]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

Where did you get that from? its a staggering stat!

[agorm]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

I agree regarding the score Meath conceded- as I said Meath have problems in defence as demonstrated in several games this year. The full back line / goalkeeper is a worry going into the Kerry game. Regarding the keeper, fantastic kickouts but a little unsure under the high ball. Fullback line could well struggle against the fantastic full forward line that Kerry have.

Regarding a comparison of the forwards, this is the only time I have seen a Mayo game in full this year so any comments are based on that, but I will call a spade a spade and say that, at the moment, I would put the Meath set of forwards quite a bit ahead of the Mayo set.

[INDIANA]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

Where did you get that from? its a staggering stat!

After about 60 odd minutes it came up on the TV screen. I was staggered as well but it definitely said 18-4 to meath on mayo kickouts. Mayo actually had done ok on meath kickouts if I remember( something like they'd won 40-45% of meath's kickouts. That would fit if you think about the first half where mayo dominated the first 20 mins.

[INDIANA]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

I agree regarding the score Meath conceded- as I said Meath have problems in defence as demonstrated in several games this year. The full back line / goalkeeper is a worry going into the Kerry game. Regarding the keeper, fantastic kickouts but a little unsure under the high ball. Fullback line could well struggle against the fantastic full forward line that Kerry have.

Regarding a comparison of the forwards, this is the only time I have seen a Mayo game in full this year so any comments are based on that, but I will call a spade a spade and say that, at the moment, I would put the Meath set of forwards quite a bit ahead of the Mayo set.

Man for man I would tend to agree. I've seen the meath lads at club level- and they are all excellent. Sure they gave dublin awful bother even with very limited posession despite dublin dominating midfield.
The breaks are the critical area for Meath vs kerry- if they can dominate the breaks like last sunday they can give themselves a chance.

[the Deel Rover]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

Where did you get that from? its a staggering stat!

After about 60 odd minutes it came up on the TV screen. I was staggered as well but it definitely said 18-4 to meath on mayo kickouts. Mayo actually had done ok on meath kickouts if I remember( something like they'd won 40-45% of meath's kickouts. That would fit if you think about the first half where mayo dominated the first 20 mins.

if that stat is true and i don't doubt you indiana its pratically impossible to win a game of football i knew meath were winning a lot of the breaks but i didn't think it was that many , i wouldn't mind but we were 4 points up at that stage 

[INDIANA]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

Where did you get that from? its a staggering stat!

After about 60 odd minutes it came up on the TV screen. I was staggered as well but it definitely said 18-4 to meath on mayo kickouts. Mayo actually had done ok on meath kickouts if I remember( something like they'd won 40-45% of meath's kickouts. That would fit if you think about the first half where mayo dominated the first 20 mins.

if that stat is true and i don't doubt you indiana its pratically impossible to win a game of football i knew meath were winning a lot of the breaks but i didn't think it was that many , i wouldn't mind but we were 4 points up at that stage 

Without paying a huge amount of attention to the breaks consciously throughout the game bar the lfirst 20 mins- I thought Meath dominated the breaks. Seamus Kenny picked up at least 5/6 on his own, King as well. Can't remember Mayo catching a clean out kick out either. Last 10-15mins were a joke- meath won at least 6 straight kickouts.

[the Deel Rover]

 Johnno needs to leave the f**king panel open and stop playing games and get rid of players and bring in fellas if needed like O Connor did with McCarty. Aidan Higgins should have been drafted in after the Galway game and started v Meath. Thats what winners do. And another thing, why was Conroy in the panel if he was nt going to be used against likes of Sheridan. I ll make a prediction here and now. Big Joe wont trouble Kerry. He ll be replaced.

i agree with what moysider can't understand why he is so keen to have a closed panel is it to do with the grants ? i was reading pet mc graths interview in the western last week and he said that he would allways leave a panel open not let the lads that are involved rest on thier laurels keep them on their toes . i know lar has asked this question before but are we the only county that operates a closed panel ?

[ludermor]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

Where did you get that from? its a staggering stat!

After about 60 odd minutes it came up on the TV screen. I was staggered as well but it definitely said 18-4 to meath on mayo kickouts. Mayo actually had done ok on meath kickouts if I remember( something like they'd won 40-45% of meath's kickouts. That would fit if you think about the first half where mayo dominated the first 20 mins.

if that stat is true and i don't doubt you indiana its pratically impossible to win a game of football i knew meath were winning a lot of the breaks but i didn't think it was that many , i wouldn't mind but we were 4 points up at that stage 

Without paying a huge amount of attention to the breaks consciously throughout the game bar the lfirst 20 mins- I thought Meath dominated the breaks. Seamus Kenny picked up at least 5/6 on his own, King as well. Can't remember Mayo catching a clean out kick out either. Last 10-15mins were a joke- meath won at least 6 straight kickouts.

I didnt realise until i watched the hoghlights how much ball Kenny won, the man hoovered up everything that went near him

[agorm]

If Meath had that level of possession then we should have converted more - maybe I was being a little too blase saying our forwards were way better. Will need to look at a rerun at some stage.

[INDIANA]

If Meath had that level of possession then we should have converted more - maybe I was being a little too blase saying our forwards were way better. Will need to look at a rerun at some stage.

You missed a few in the first half you should have got- 2-15- is more than enough to win any football match. I'd be worried about the 1-15.

[Lar Naparka]

I actually thought its was defence and midfield that were mayo's problems. The Problems with shot selection in the last 15 mins- came from players who weren't forwards- so I'd disagree with you on the mayo forwards. If I was a meath man I'd be asking myself how mayo still scored 1-15. I actually thought Mayo did ok up front last Sunday but were ripped apart of the breaks and defence. Mayo lost 18-4 on their own kickouts which is a shocking statistic.

Where did you get that from? its a staggering stat!

I know, luder, it is a shocking statistic but I have read it elsewhere also. I think it was on the RTE site but yesterday wasn't my day for reasoned analysis! I can't be sure where I saw it.
Today, I'm seeing things with a bit more detachment; O'Mahony may indeed have a long term strategy. If he has, I think he knows that he wont get places until he has a full squad from the u21 teams of the last few years  and this will take another year at the very least.
The midfielders on Sunday were the two most experienced players on the field. They failed to produce the goods as they did against Galway. I'm betting that neither will figure in his plans for next year. I'd go further and say that Andy, Peadar and possibly Trevor will be all of the old squad still around come next season.
I read somewhere that the average age of the present side is only 23. It's a very big ask to expect them to stay calm and focused in a pressure game at Headquarters. It was the time for the older hands to rise to the occasion and provide leadership for the young lads and they failed to do this. I don't know how many of the lads were playing for the first time in Croker but even an u21 final couldn't compare with the pressures they were under last day—and the likes of Liam McHale bringing up his personal grievances in public was no help either. Same goes for Maughan with his ever so subtle damning with faint praise all the time.
FFS, McHale got the line that day because he deserved to go! That's black and white. He ran in and started swinging clatters all around him and McEananey was perfectly within his rights to show him the red card. The fact is that only 3 or so would still be on the field if the ref applied the rules. The tanned one was as guilty as anyone else.
Any other considerations are secondary to this fact and I wish he'd just shut up.
O'Mahony stated that he was aiming for a Connacht title this year. Now that I've settled down a bit, I have to say that was a fair enough goal to aim for under the circumstance