Question for Armagh Folk

[Massey-135]

why are there no ballymacnab men on the team

[eireogatron]

.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .

The 3 players you mentioned were almost instant contributors to the Armagh cause. Marsden was our star forward from he was about 20, as was McConville at that age and then Stevie McDonnell was starting and scoring in his second year on the panel. as was clarke.

These players went virtually straight into the team. As far as I remember both Marsden and McConville were the principle free takers straight from their respective debuts.

The kings are dead, where are the new ones??

Marsden played on the senior team from he was a minor in 1993 but in fairness the team was getting walloped by Derry/Tyrone until we made the breakthrough, what age was he then 24/25?? McConville took a couple of years to break onto the team, the exception is McDonnell who burst onto the scene in 2000, but all our "greats" like Marsden, McConville, Geezer, McGrane, earned their spurs for 4/5 years before making their mark in 1999-2005. We have to be fair to the young lads like Toner, Vernon, and Forker and give them some time.
We do have a new batch of young talent coming through, whether they can match the feats of 2002 is another question, but they must be managed/coached properly and not made play under systems that used to suit our previous team. They need to be allowed to play to their own strengths.

i disagree slightly. What are we arguing about? Their individual contributions or the time it took for them to gel as a team? The 3 guys were starters and scorers virtually immediately fromtheir introduction to the squad.

I would agree it took the team a while to take shape as the McEntees, McGrane - even Geezer took a few years to become focal points for the team. McGrane in particular looked to light when he first started in the team and got a wee bit of stick (not much as there was no expectation anyway) - how wrong could you get!!

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

[full back]

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

Who

[mackers]

.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .

The 3 players you mentioned were almost instant contributors to the Armagh cause. Marsden was our star forward from he was about 20, as was McConville at that age and then Stevie McDonnell was starting and scoring in his second year on the panel. as was clarke.

These players went virtually straight into the team. As far as I remember both Marsden and McConville were the principle free takers straight from their respective debuts.

The kings are dead, where are the new ones??

Marsden played on the senior team from he was a minor in 1993 but in fairness the team was getting walloped by Derry/Tyrone until we made the breakthrough, what age was he then 24/25?? McConville took a couple of years to break onto the team, the exception is McDonnell who burst onto the scene in 2000, but all our "greats" like Marsden, McConville, Geezer, McGrane, earned their spurs for 4/5 years before making their mark in 1999-2005. We have to be fair to the young lads like Toner, Vernon, and Forker and give them some time.
We do have a new batch of young talent coming through, whether they can match the feats of 2002 is another question, but they must be managed/coached properly and not made play under systems that used to suit our previous team. They need to be allowed to play to their own strengths.

i disagree slightly. What are we arguing about? Their individual contributions or the time it took for them to gel as a team? The 3 guys were starters and scorers virtually immediately fromtheir introduction to the squad.

I would agree it took the team a while to take shape as the McEntees, McGrane - even Geezer took a few years to become focal points for the team. McGrane in particular looked to light when he first started in the team and got a wee bit of stick (not much as there was no expectation anyway) - how wrong could you get!!

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

I do see where you are coming from, I'm not really arguing, I'm looking at it from the team perspective and as you say it took the 99-05 team a while to come together and it will be the same with this team. I'd like to see the development of the team accelarated not hindered.........on Saturday's evidence (and not Saturday on it's own) it seems to be the latter.

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

Who

I'd presume Philip Loughran.

[eireogatron]

.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .

The 3 players you mentioned were almost instant contributors to the Armagh cause. Marsden was our star forward from he was about 20, as was McConville at that age and then Stevie McDonnell was starting and scoring in his second year on the panel. as was clarke.

These players went virtually straight into the team. As far as I remember both Marsden and McConville were the principle free takers straight from their respective debuts.

The kings are dead, where are the new ones??

Marsden played on the senior team from he was a minor in 1993 but in fairness the team was getting walloped by Derry/Tyrone until we made the breakthrough, what age was he then 24/25?? McConville took a couple of years to break onto the team, the exception is McDonnell who burst onto the scene in 2000, but all our "greats" like Marsden, McConville, Geezer, McGrane, earned their spurs for 4/5 years before making their mark in 1999-2005. We have to be fair to the young lads like Toner, Vernon, and Forker and give them some time.
We do have a new batch of young talent coming through, whether they can match the feats of 2002 is another question, but they must be managed/coached properly and not made play under systems that used to suit our previous team. They need to be allowed to play to their own strengths.

i disagree slightly. What are we arguing about? Their individual contributions or the time it took for them to gel as a team? The 3 guys were starters and scorers virtually immediately fromtheir introduction to the squad.

I would agree it took the team a while to take shape as the McEntees, McGrane - even Geezer took a few years to become focal points for the team. McGrane in particular looked to light when he first started in the team and got a wee bit of stick (not much as there was no expectation anyway) - how wrong could you get!!

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

I do see where you are coming from, I'm not really arguing, I'm looking at it from the team perspective and as you say it took the 99-05 team a while to come together and it will be the same with this team. I'd like to see the development of the team accelarated not hindered.........on Saturday's evidence (and not Saturday on it's own) it seems to be the latter.

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

Who

I'd presume Philip Loughran.

you're right there mackers.

and about Loughran, Philly Loughran from Clady. I think hes been given the short of short shrifts

[full back]

.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .

The 3 players you mentioned were almost instant contributors to the Armagh cause. Marsden was our star forward from he was about 20, as was McConville at that age and then Stevie McDonnell was starting and scoring in his second year on the panel. as was clarke.

These players went virtually straight into the team. As far as I remember both Marsden and McConville were the principle free takers straight from their respective debuts.

The kings are dead, where are the new ones??

Marsden played on the senior team from he was a minor in 1993 but in fairness the team was getting walloped by Derry/Tyrone until we made the breakthrough, what age was he then 24/25?? McConville took a couple of years to break onto the team, the exception is McDonnell who burst onto the scene in 2000, but all our "greats" like Marsden, McConville, Geezer, McGrane, earned their spurs for 4/5 years before making their mark in 1999-2005. We have to be fair to the young lads like Toner, Vernon, and Forker and give them some time.
We do have a new batch of young talent coming through, whether they can match the feats of 2002 is another question, but they must be managed/coached properly and not made play under systems that used to suit our previous team. They need to be allowed to play to their own strengths.

i disagree slightly. What are we arguing about? Their individual contributions or the time it took for them to gel as a team? The 3 guys were starters and scorers virtually immediately fromtheir introduction to the squad.

I would agree it took the team a while to take shape as the McEntees, McGrane - even Geezer took a few years to become focal points for the team. McGrane in particular looked to light when he first started in the team and got a wee bit of stick (not much as there was no expectation anyway) - how wrong could you get!!

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

I do see where you are coming from, I'm not really arguing, I'm looking at it from the team perspective and as you say it took the 99-05 team a while to come together and it will be the same with this team. I'd like to see the development of the team accelarated not hindered.........on Saturday's evidence (and not Saturday on it's own) it seems to be the latter.

The best midfielder in the county isnt being given a chance for various personal/political reasons IMO - Floppy Loughran.

Who

I'd presume Philip Loughran.

you're right there mackers.

and about Loughran, Philly Loughran from Clady. I think hes been given the short of short shrifts

Didnt know he was called Floppy
Is he playing for Clady this year?

[eireogatron]

no i dont think so. he wasnt playing when we played them anyway. There were rumours of ultimatums to move club to remain on the county panel etc last year. he hasnt played for a while now but not sure if its related.

Anyones care to shine any light on this?

[Sandy Hill]

Loughran hasn't the "heart" for hard county football.

[Orior]

Did he get an All-Ireland medal?

[Yes I Would]

Think he was on the bench in 02.
Not playing ball at the minute on medical advice. Has had serious back trouble.

[imtommygunn]

From the outside looking in...

You still have fine players though like some have pointed out perhaps not so much in the forward department.

That FB, Mallon, Kernan and McKeever are all very good defenders though I would take some people's point about Kernan slowing it up.

Your manager did a few things wrong on saturday
- aidan o'rourke at corner back was a mjor faux pas. leaving him on for a succession of points was woeful management to be honest
- as has been discussed HF line was ridiculous
- Forker is good and should have been on from minute one
- your fitness is not up to scratch
- that midfielder should never have been taken off

Two things he wasn't at fault for
- th stupid indisciplined tackling at times (andy mallon surprisingly very guilty of it)
- the referee not giving clarke any protection wtasoever(maybe you could point taht at mcdonnell too) Had you got all the frees you deserved there the game would have been won in normal time. This would however have only temporarily masked your problems.

Personally I think, as an outsider, armagh should be the second best team in ulster. They're not near `Tyrone or AI standard however I think they have the raw materials to be better than anyone else.

Stevie would be a good CHF and with Mallon in that line and Forker and Clarke in the FF line that would be half decent.

I don't think Stevie is past i yet. However I don't think he's fit as he has a belly and county footballers should not have a belly...

[armaghniac]

That FB, Mallon, Kernan and McKeever are all very good defenders though I would take some people's point about Kernan slowing it up.

People have noted Kernan "slowing it up", but at the game, as distinct from on TV, you could see that there were few runs made to allow him the opportunity for a pass.

I don't think that the team were as fit as they might be. OK AOR is not the youngest, but themany of the team should be in their prime. Back at Easter Cork were running rings around us, but you could say that they were just ahead in the fitness schedule and that in 3 months Armagh would be up to speed, but they weren't really. Can John McCloskey be brought back from Wasps?

[hectorsheroes]

Is McCloskey definitely at Wasps?

[Goats Do Shave]

From the outside looking in...

You still have fine players though like some have pointed out perhaps not so much in the forward department.

That FB, Mallon, Kernan and McKeever are all very good defenders though I would take some people's point about Kernan slowing it up.

Your manager did a few things wrong on saturday
- aidan o'rourke at corner back was a mjor faux pas. leaving him on for a succession of points was woeful management to be honest
- as has been discussed HF line was ridiculous
- Forker is good and should have been on from minute one
- your fitness is not up to scratch
- that midfielder should never have been taken off

Two things he wasn't at fault for
- th stupid indisciplined tackling at times (andy mallon surprisingly very guilty of it)
- the referee not giving clarke any protection wtasoever(maybe you could point taht at mcdonnell too) Had you got all the frees you deserved there the game would have been won in normal time. This would however have only temporarily masked your problems.

Personally I think, as an outsider, armagh should be the second best team in ulster. They're not near `Tyrone or AI standard however I think they have the raw materials to be better than anyone else.

Stevie would be a good CHF and with Mallon in that line and Forker and Clarke in the FF line that would be half decent.

I don't think Stevie is past i yet. However I don't think he's fit as he has a belly and county footballers should not have a belly...

That's the best post i've read on this board in a long time!

[SidelineKick]

Is McCloskey definitely at Wasps?

Thats the buzz on the street anyway.