Question for Armagh Folk

[jimbo]

His Sunday Game interview there looked very much as he was certainly going

Let's hope so.

[full back]

Before going on, please desist from turning this into a name calling thread or a "we're still better you than you" thread.


A serious question for Armagh diehards. Will any of you accept that your team is in a period of transition, and that this is not Peter McDonnell's fault? And if you'll accept that, then would you also accept that this is only natural for a county of your size and resources?


For me, once the crux of Armagh's team of the 2000s was formed by the two Brians then refined by Big Joe, changes to the team were gradual, and normally as the result of better talent coming through, rather than holes needing to be filled. 11 or more guys knew what position they'd be playing in Championship time come the end of February.

McDonnell on the other hand is faced with building a team more or less from scratch. And if truth be told, with a group of players that looks distinctly average in comparison to what's just gone by.

I'd suggest that the negative, defensive tactics he is employing are the result of a simple realisation that his team, for now anyway, would get slaughtered if they took the bigger teams on in a scoring contest. The creativity isn't there, the power isn't there and the leadership isn't there.

Or because you fellas have been spoiled in recent years, is this too much of a realisation to take.


By the way, I'd love a negative manager to come on board at Down for a few seasons, especially when a team is starting out. If a manager can impose a defensive will upon all his players, his successors have a much easier job to do.

Luckily we have a Ballyholland to english dictionary in our house, what thewobbler really means is are Armagh shite and can Peter McDonnell take them back to their rightful place in division 4.

Typical bullsh1t

[Orior]

What I miss the most about our glory years is the swagger.

As someone else on the board pointed out, a team in transition is the same as poor team. There's no point in blaming Peter McD. The current does not measure up against this lot

Tierney
McNulty Bellew Mallon
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
McGrane Toal
McEntee Marsden McKeever
McDonnell Clarke McConnville

[Bensars]

Armagh have the players to contend for major honours.  I am absolutely convinced of that.  I think Armagh's problems currently are down to decisions made on the line. 

PMcD promised much needed change, he hasn't delivered.

Herein lies the problem..YOU DON"Thave the players, and I think that everyone else realises that, simply not good enough at the top level

Think the above quote hits the nail on the head.

You have just enjoyed the most successful years In Armagh football history, however there is a stark difference between expectation and reality by most ( not all ).
Added to that you have a manager that was thrown into the role ( not elected)  against the wishes of many.
There have been numerous reports of inhouse disharmony , even before this years campaign started.
The retirement of the core players from the last 10 years plus the inability to put out to pasture others.
Thats all before you take into consideration the managerial abilty on the training field and during game time.

And then you wonder why it's happening  ?

[mackers]

Armagh have the players to contend for major honours.  I am absolutely convinced of that.  I think Armagh's problems currently are down to decisions made on the line. 

PMcD promised much needed change, he hasn't delivered.

Herein lies the problem..YOU DON"Thave the players, and I think that everyone else realises that, simply not good enough at the top level

Think the above quote hits the nail on the head.

You have just enjoyed the most successful years In Armagh football history, however there is a stark difference between expectation and reality by most ( not all ).
Added to that you have a manager that was thrown into the role ( not elected)  against the wishes of many.
There have been numerous reports of inhouse disharmony , even before this years campaign started.
The retirement of the core players from the last 10 years plus the inability to put out to pasture others.
Thats all before you take into consideration the managerial abilty on the training field and during game time.

And then you wonder why it's happening  ?

Correction, SOME (not all).

[The GAA]

What I miss the most about our glory years is the swagger.

As someone else on the board pointed out, a team in transition is the same as poor team. There's no point in blaming Peter McD. The current does not measure up against this lot

Tierney
McNulty Bellew Mallon
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
McGrane Toal
McEntee Marsden McKeever
McDonnell Clarke McConnville

         Tierney
McNulty McNulty Bellew
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
     McGrane Toal
McConnville McEntee McKeever
McDonnell Clarke Marsden

[corn02]

What I miss the most about our glory years is the swagger.

As someone else on the board pointed out, a team in transition is the same as poor team. There's no point in blaming Peter McD. The current does not measure up against this lot

Tierney
McNulty Bellew Mallon
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
McGrane Toal
McEntee Marsden McKeever
McDonnell Clarke McConnville

When you look at that tema it is immense.

So in 2010 what we hoping/expecting. Shocking early but will pass  a few mins.

McEvoy
Mallon Donaghy P Kernan
Shannon McKeever AK

Toner/McKennna/Lavery/O'Neill

Marty (i'd still play him if injuries clear up) SK Mallon
Forker Clarke Barnsey/McDonnell

[Armaghtothebone]

Armagh have the players to contend for major honours.  I am absolutely convinced of that.  I think Armagh's problems currently are down to decisions made on the line. 

PMcD promised much needed change, he hasn't delivered.

I really really do wish I could agree with you.Nothing and I genuinely do mean nothing would give me more pleasure than to see us competing at the highest level.But the simple truth is we just are'nt good enough.
We dont have scoring forwards.Can even the most die hard Armagh fan amongst you tell me that you expect either Marty O'Rourke or Paul Duffy to take a score.I certainly dont expect it.
We have become Derry!!!By that I mean stop 1 or 2 forwards and we are no threat.

You say the problems are on the line.I wish I could agree, but I just can't see it. Who would have made a difference?Maybe Forker for Paul Duffy, but he's only a youngster,not really ready for the white heat of senior football yet.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .
We have to face it, the greatest team we have ever had has come and gone. We might, with a following wind and the rub of the green have won another All Ireland, maybe even 2 but we did'nt.
This team needs an injection of new talent, here's praying that somewhere in the Orchard County it is ready to step up.     

[Our Nail Loney]

What I miss the most about our glory years is the swagger.

As someone else on the board pointed out, a team in transition is the same as poor team. There's no point in blaming Peter McD. The current does not measure up against this lot

Tierney
McNulty Bellew Mallon
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
McGrane Toal
McEntee Marsden McKeever
McDonnell Clarke McConnville

When you look at that tema it is immense.

So in 2010 what we hoping/expecting. Shocking early but will pass  a few mins.

McEvoy
Mallon Donaghy P Kernan
Shannon McKeever AK

Toner/McKennna/Lavery/O'Neill

Marty (i'd still play him if injuries clear up) SK Mallon
Forker Clarke Barnsey/McDonnell

hes been jumping the shark for at least a year now corn, give it up...

[Smokin Joe]

What I miss the most about our glory years is the swagger.

As someone else on the board pointed out, a team in transition is the same as poor team. There's no point in blaming Peter McD. The current does not measure up against this lot

Tierney
McNulty Bellew Mallon
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
McGrane Toal
McEntee Marsden McKeever
McDonnell Clarke McConnville

         Tierney
McNulty McNulty Bellew
O'Rourke McGeeny McCann
     McGrane Toal
McConnville McEntee McKeever
McDonnell Clarke Marsden

This is a point that I continually make.  In 2002 we had 5 real top class scoring forwards (PMcK was hot and cold), yet we still only managed to win the All Ireland by 1 point. 
Compare those forwards to the scoring threat that we possess at the moment and see our problems.

[armaghniac]

I think you can be realistic and accept that Armagh are not where they were 5 years ago and still be unhappy with the present state of things. On the basis of recent performances over the last couple of years Armagh can reasonably aim to reach the quarter finals. We may not be in the top three and so unlikely to win out, but should still be a cut above getting knocked out without winning a game. Over the weekend Limerick showed how a team can work together, we did not.

[balladmaker]

Armagh are not where they were 3, 5 , 7 years ago.  Times have moved on quickly for this team and what we have now is a poor shadow of the Armagh of a few years back.

But one thing is for sure, Armagh are a better team than that shambles of a performance last Saturday, abysmal doesn't go far enough. 

It is important for Armagh to remain competitive and not slip into the quagmire of the 80's and early 90's when a championship win was the exception.

[full back]

You are correct in saying that Armagh are better than they showed on Saturday night

There is very little wrong with the defence
Mallon, Donaghy, AK & in particular Mc Keever are as good as defenders that you will see

[eireogatron]

.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .

The 3 players you mentioned were almost instant contributors to the Armagh cause. Marsden was our star forward from he was about 20, as was McConville at that age and then Stevie McDonnell was starting and scoring in his second year on the panel. as was clarke.

These players went virtually straight into the team. As far as I remember both Marsden and McConville were the principle free takers straight from their respective debuts.

The kings are dead, where are the new ones??

[mackers]

.For those with long memories remember how long it took Marsdy/Oisin/Stevie McD to become "real contributors" .

The 3 players you mentioned were almost instant contributors to the Armagh cause. Marsden was our star forward from he was about 20, as was McConville at that age and then Stevie McDonnell was starting and scoring in his second year on the panel. as was clarke.

These players went virtually straight into the team. As far as I remember both Marsden and McConville were the principle free takers straight from their respective debuts.

The kings are dead, where are the new ones??

Marsden played on the senior team from he was a minor in 1993 but in fairness the team was getting walloped by Derry/Tyrone until we made the breakthrough, what age was he then 24/25?? McConville took a couple of years to break onto the team, the exception is McDonnell who burst onto the scene in 2000, but all our "greats" like Marsden, McConville, Geezer, McGrane, earned their spurs for 4/5 years before making their mark in 1999-2005. We have to be fair to the young lads like Toner, Vernon, and Forker and give them some time.
We do have a new batch of young talent coming through, whether they can match the feats of 2002 is another question, but they must be managed/coached properly and not made play under systems that used to suit our previous team. They need to be allowed to play to their own strengths.