Monaghan v Derry

[Maguire01]

As regards the criticism of Brolly in this matter. Had he been asked to represent Tommy Freeman at this hearing i am sure Joe would have gladly gone to bat for him with the same degree of professionalism as he did for the 2 Derry boys. It is also likely that he would have got a similar result. If you's didn't

I don't believe he gave an answer when he was asked if he'd defend Clerkin, if it had been required and he had been asked, so I wouldn't be so sure on that one.

When and by whom was he asked this question about Clerkin?  Dick didn't need defending anyway, sure he done nothing wrong.....  

Was it not on RTÉ? I'm sure someone else can clarify. He dodged the question.

[Maguire01]

The punishment handed down to Thomas Freeman is a disgrace. Compared to the punishment given to Mullan and Doherty, it is a travesty of justice.

I think in the end it came down to the fact that both Doherty and Mullan were provoked before their actions and this was proven using video evidence by former All-Ireland winning footballer and well respected RTE Sunday Game analyst Joe Brolly. In Freeman's case it seemed that his headbutt on Kevin McGuckin was in no way provoked and therefore any appeal for a reduction in suspension was rejected.

Having said all that Freeman is a class act of a player and his loss will be a huge one especially considering how poor the monaghan full forward line were against armagh. Plus it doesn't seem that there is any strength in depth there at all, we know about Hanratty's limitations and ur fella Meegan looked way off the pace. Suppose you couldn't rule out Corey being fired in up front at number 14. From a Derry point of view I think it will take moments of brilliance again from individuals such as Eoin Bradley and Kielt if we are to get over the line in this one.

1. The complete match was provocation.

not to go over old ground, but the entire match fell to sh!t discipline wise after Dessie Mone punched Paddy Bradley a few times in the kidney region before the ball was even thrown in, this is what Monaghan had set out to bring to the table

Whilst not forgetting McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in of course.

[Maguire01]

It was Colm O Rourke, but in fairness he could hardly comment when he has just represented someone in a case against Clerkin.

Why not, if it was a hypothetical question?

[Keyser soze]

I didn't know Dick Clerkin needed to be defended, was he charged with any offence?  What i was pointing out was the difference in the role of commentator and that of acting as legal counsel at a hearing. I'm sure if Brolly had been asked to assist in the defence of Freeman he probably would have done so. I'm  sure he will in future be asked by other counties to defend their players. Brolly would be perfectly capable of slating a players actions on the Sunday Game in his role as pundit and defending them at  hearing at a later date in his role as a legal professional. There is no clash of interest here as far as i can see. I imagine he wouldn't going onto RTE to proclaim his willingness to represent players, htat would be advertising. Having said all that i hope he wouldn't represent a player if Derry were palying them in the next round!!

There may be a clash of interest in his role as an 'independent' pundit for matches involving Derry as obviously he has a gra for his own county [and rightly so], but this is a matter for RTE to address.

[tyronefan]

Listen fella - I was at the game but did not see Doc swiping at Clerkin. I am (like the legal counsel and Joe Brolly) basing my evidence on the TV footage - the same TV footage as you were presented with. Freeman was hardly on his own in 'acting the maggot' all day. No one is suggesting that either team is free of sin, not by a long shot. The fact remains that the two Derry lads actually struck and got four weeks and the Monaghan man attempted to strike and got 8 weeks. I'm hardly blaming you personally for this but it's wrong, end of story.

Maybe we should get McGuckian to write a nicely worded letter on fragrant paper to the DRA/CAC/ABC/RUC/PSNI and any other quango kangaroo court that exists within the sport categorically stating that Freeman didn't actually strike with the head.

  It's the interpretation of the rules that I take umbrage with.

Dont like being call fella, but I'll let you away with it, this time.

I agree with the poor interpretation of the rules.  To me this goes back to the Tommy McGuigan incident. I think if he had have got 8 weeks then Mullan would have accepted the same. Personally I thought it warranted 8 weeks.  Freeman's is certainly very harsh and although I say he was acting the maggot I dont think he deserved such a lengthy suspension. Doc and Clerkin were at it all day, Doc just happened to be caught. If you're caught then you can have no complaints.

Yeah  right

[Maguire01]

I didn't know Dick Clerkin needed to be defended, was he charged with any offence?  

Once again: It was a hypothetical question. Dick did not need to be defended; he was not charged with any offence.

[SidelineKick]

Listen fella - I was at the game but did not see Doc swiping at Clerkin. I am (like the legal counsel and Joe Brolly) basing my evidence on the TV footage - the same TV footage as you were presented with. Freeman was hardly on his own in 'acting the maggot' all day. No one is suggesting that either team is free of sin, not by a long shot. The fact remains that the two Derry lads actually struck and got four weeks and the Monaghan man attempted to strike and got 8 weeks. I'm hardly blaming you personally for this but it's wrong, end of story.

Maybe we should get McGuckian to write a nicely worded letter on fragrant paper to the DRA/CAC/ABC/RUC/PSNI and any other quango kangaroo court that exists within the sport categorically stating that Freeman didn't actually strike with the head.

  It's the interpretation of the rules that I take umbrage with.

Dont like being call fella, but I'll let you away with it, this time.

I agree with the poor interpretation of the rules.  To me this goes back to the Tommy McGuigan incident. I think if he had have got 8 weeks then Mullan would have accepted the same. Personally I thought it warranted 8 weeks.  Freeman's is certainly very harsh and although I say he was acting the maggot I dont think he deserved such a lengthy suspension. Doc and Clerkin were at it all day, Doc just happened to be caught. If you're caught then you can have no complaints.

Yeah  right

Why do you say that? I think if that had have been the marker then Derry would have had no basis for an appeal. But the fact that McGuigan got 4 weeks for the same offcence, it made sense to appeal it. I look forward to another intelligent response from you. "Yeah right" will be hard to top in fairness 

[Will Hunting]

Listen fella - I was at the game but did not see Doc swiping at Clerkin. I am (like the legal counsel and Joe Brolly) basing my evidence on the TV footage - the same TV footage as you were presented with. Freeman was hardly on his own in 'acting the maggot' all day. No one is suggesting that either team is free of sin, not by a long shot. The fact remains that the two Derry lads actually struck and got four weeks and the Monaghan man attempted to strike and got 8 weeks. I'm hardly blaming you personally for this but it's wrong, end of story.

Maybe we should get McGuckian to write a nicely worded letter on fragrant paper to the DRA/CAC/ABC/RUC/PSNI and any other quango kangaroo court that exists within the sport categorically stating that Freeman didn't actually strike with the head.

  It's the interpretation of the rules that I take umbrage with.

Dont like being call fella, but I'll let you away with it, this time.

I agree with the poor interpretation of the rules.  To me this goes back to the Tommy McGuigan incident. I think if he had have got 8 weeks then Mullan would have accepted the same. Personally I thought it warranted 8 weeks.  Freeman's is certainly very harsh and although I say he was acting the maggot I dont think he deserved such a lengthy suspension. Doc and Clerkin were at it all day, Doc just happened to be caught. If you're caught then you can have no complaints.

Yeah  right

Why do you say that? I think if that had have been the marker then Derry would have had no basis for an appeal. But the fact that McGuigan got 4 weeks for the same offcence, it made sense to appeal it. I look forward to another intelligent response from you. "Yeah right" will be hard to top in fairness 

Not forgetting as well Sideline that McGuigan actually appealed the 4-week ban!!

[SidelineKick]

Well remembered Will, obviously they must have felt a knee in the crigs is part of the game!

[GrandMasterFlash]

Grandmaster - you should be angry with your own manager and county board.

Banty and Co. strolled up to the CCCCCCCCC with no legal council and demanded the ban be lifted completely - how arrogant and idiotic is that?
When that didn't work they went looking for loopholes and technicalities to get off ....

Derry CB on the other hand went up with properly advised legal representation and video evidence and said "We're sorry ... there was some provocation and our boys reacted wrong, they apologise, won't happen again, and can we please have the ban reduced a bit we think it's a bit harsh?"


Which was the smartest option when all is said an done?

  Ignorant to the mechanics of the CCCCCCCCC yes, arrogant and/or idiotic not. There's no doubt Derry were better prepared, I'm not disputing that. How do you know what either the Derry/Monaghan county board said and how do you know Monaghan didn't apologise perfusely. Am I missing something??

[GrandMasterFlash]

As i said earlier I think Freemans ban was harsh. Was happy Doc & BM got their's reduced to 4 weeks, probably about fair, if TF had got the same I'm sure everybody would have gone home happy.

I don't think either side has much leeway to be giving out about the other being dirty, we were both at it, some got caught, some got away, we've all been there. saturday is a new day.

As regards the criticism of Brolly in this matter. Had he been asked to represent Tommy Freeman at this hearing i am sure Joe would have gladly gone to bat for him with the same degree of professionalism as he did for the 2 Derry boys. It is also likely that he would have got a similar result. If you's didn't

Irrelevant Keyser. The point is he shouldn't be representing anyone whilst working as a pundit for RTE. End of story.

[JMohan]

Grandmaster - you should be angry with your own manager and county board.

Banty and Co. strolled up to the CCCCCCCCC with no legal council and demanded the ban be lifted completely - how arrogant and idiotic is that?
When that didn't work they went looking for loopholes and technicalities to get off ....

Derry CB on the other hand went up with properly advised legal representation and video evidence and said "We're sorry ... there was some provocation and our boys reacted wrong, they apologise, won't happen again, and can we please have the ban reduced a bit we think it's a bit harsh?"


Which was the smartest option when all is said an done?

  Ignorant to the mechanics of the CCCCCCCCC yes, arrogant and/or idiotic not. There's no doubt Derry were better prepared, I'm not disputing that. How do you know what either the Derry/Monaghan county board said and how do you know Monaghan didn't apologise perfusely. Am I missing something??

Well it's obvious that the Monaghan County board screwed up - so it's got nothing to do with Brolly, the CCCCCC or anyone else
Point the finger back home

[Maguire01]

Grandmaster - you should be angry with your own manager and county board.

Banty and Co. strolled up to the CCCCCCCCC with no legal council and demanded the ban be lifted completely - how arrogant and idiotic is that?
When that didn't work they went looking for loopholes and technicalities to get off ....

Derry CB on the other hand went up with properly advised legal representation and video evidence and said "We're sorry ... there was some provocation and our boys reacted wrong, they apologise, won't happen again, and can we please have the ban reduced a bit we think it's a bit harsh?"


Which was the smartest option when all is said an done?

  Ignorant to the mechanics of the CCCCCCCCC yes, arrogant and/or idiotic not. There's no doubt Derry were better prepared, I'm not disputing that. How do you know what either the Derry/Monaghan county board said and how do you know Monaghan didn't apologise perfusely. Am I missing something??

Well it's obvious that the Monaghan County board screwed up - so it's got nothing to do with Brolly, the CCCCCC or anyone else
Point the finger back home

It's not obvious, it's an assumption. Unless you were there of course.

[Will Hunting]

What's the problem here anyway? Freeman attempted to headbutt an opponent - 8 week ban. end of story.

[Maguire01]

What's the problem here anyway? Freeman attempted to headbutt an opponent - 8 week ban. end of story.

And by that logic Doherty and Mullan were seen to strike an opponent - 8 week ban. end of story.