Catholics the majority in Schools in NI

[Chrisowc]

I'm not sure about a cornered rat.  I smell one though.

[brokencrossbar1]

...any new unification of Ireland will be made harder by getting Cork people to accept they are part of the one country!

Feck, now there's a problem!

It's alright lads, I have them sorted out

I have said it before and will say it again there will be a ceremonial handing over in 2016 with some form of "commonwealth" arrangement to appease the unionists.  I have herd a few articles on the radio down here in recent months about rejoining the Commonwealth etc and there is a softly softly approach to something like this being introduced.  It might not be in the normal sense of it the way the likes of Canada are in the Common wealth but there will be some form of acknowledgment.  Much will also depend on how FF deal with the financial problems over the next 3-5 years.  If they can show steady hands and turn things around, and get rid of the current image then they will be more acceptable to the unionist politicians. 

I know the usual suspects will come on an argue that I am being silly, but fair enough.  They cannot predict the future anymore than I can.  I just think that we are on the last turn of there being a connection with Britain.  We will more likely be part of a Federal EU state in the next 20 years than part of GB and NI.

[lynchbhoy]

its not that the majority will vote for re-unification, its just that there will be less resistance to it than before as the polulation becomes more and more diluted and apathetic to previous problems.

anyhow, the situation will be completely based on the economic climate being right after the population number turning point has been reached.
There has to be serious funding of new industry across all of ulster (all 9 counties are lacking local industry).
The Irish gov must be in a healthy state of affairs with booming exchequer, same as English and us Govs & EU - as they will all be expected to invest towards this.

the increasing majority of catholics (not no one is now using the term roman catholics ! ) is just an indication that the unification is impending.
so many of the 'institutions' of current everyday north of Ireland landscape - massive civil service employment, poorly structured bodies such as psni, ni soccer team will all be a thing of the past in a new all Ireland.
Lets hope we can pay for it.
How about we give cork to the unionists and they can become part of the commonwealth !

[delboy]

I don't see it happening in my lifetime, personally i would never vote away the national health service. In addition as someone else alluded to NI is awash with silly service jobs and the public sector employs a greater proportion of people here than anywhere compared to the UK or Ireland (about 30 %). And im pretty sure the NHS is the largest single employer.   I can't see the dublin silly service guys letting the belfast ones run the show and the country could not support  both sets. In other words there would be massive cuts in the public sector. I don't see those particular turkeys (public sector workers) voting for Christmas (united Ireland) so to speak.   

[Lazer]

I don't see it happening in my lifetime, personally i would never vote away the national health service. In addition as someone else alluded to NI is awash with silly service jobs and the public sector employs a greater proportion of people here than anywhere compared to the UK or Ireland (about 30 %). And im pretty sure the NHS is the largest single employer.   I can't see the dublin silly service guys letting the belfast ones run the show and the country could not support  both sets. In other words there would be massive cuts in the public sector. I don't see those particular turkeys (public sector workers) voting for Christmas (united Ireland) so to speak.   

I'd think along the same lines - however I think that any deal before unification should involve some sort of promise to keep the N.Health service as we have paid our taxex to the britsih government and its only right that we shuld reap the benefits of this. A compromise could possibly be the brits agreeing to foot the bill for private healthcare insurance for all NI residents for the next x number of years, by which point there probaly won't be a NHS either.
Also a lot of people will believe what the political parties tell them before the vote, so when SF/SDLP etc promise the same standard of living, no job cuts etc it will believed and the majority will vote for a United Ireland.
The overwhelming factor in voting for a united Ireland, for me anyway, would be its the only way to guarantee real peace, ok there will be a bit/maybe a lot of unrest from the loyalists at the start, however it won't last forever and in the future it will all be confined to the history books!

[Hardy]

"Politics is about the right to existence - the right to life - bread on your table and a roof over your head. It doesn't matter what flag you wrap around you when you stand in the dole queue or are forced to emigrate to another country to earn a living. A flag should symbolise the unity of the whole community. It should never be used as a party political or sectional emblem.

It was not the land of Ireland that was divided, it was the people of Ireland. The line on the map was geographical, but the real border was in the minds and hearts of the people.

When we are dealing with a human conflict whether in a divided community, a divided country, or a divided globe, it is the building of mutual trust and not mutual fear that will solve the problem of conflict."

[delboy]

"Politics is about the right to existence - the right to life - bread on your table and a roof over your head. It doesn't matter what flag you wrap around you when you stand in the dole queue or are forced to emigrate to another country to earn a living. A flag should symbolise the unity of the whole community. It should never be used as a party political or sectional emblem.

It was not the land of Ireland that was divided, it was the people of Ireland. The line on the map was geographical, but the real border was in the minds and hearts of the people.

When we are dealing with a human conflict whether in a divided community, a divided country, or a divided globe, it is the building of mutual trust and not mutual fear that will solve the problem of conflict."

Well said!

[lynchbhoy]

"Politics is about the right to existence - the right to life - bread on your table and a roof over your head. It doesn't matter what flag you wrap around you when you stand in the dole queue or are forced to emigrate to another country to earn a living. A flag should symbolise the unity of the whole community. It should never be used as a party political or sectional emblem.

It was not the land of Ireland that was divided, it was the people of Ireland. The line on the map was geographical, but the real border was in the minds and hearts of the people.

When we are dealing with a human conflict whether in a divided community, a divided country, or a divided globe, it is the building of mutual trust and not mutual fear that will solve the problem of conflict."

except that money will overcome all these 'fears'

sure the majority of unionist/loyalists wouldnt 'cross the border' until the celtic tiger and the lure of money..

so the lure of a 'better life' with more money etc will appeal again (to both sides)
BUT
there has to be such an incentive in place and thats not going to be in the next short to medium term...

[Myles Na G.]

"Politics is about the right to existence - the right to life - bread on your table and a roof over your head. It doesn't matter what flag you wrap around you when you stand in the dole queue or are forced to emigrate to another country to earn a living. A flag should symbolise the unity of the whole community. It should never be used as a party political or sectional emblem.

It was not the land of Ireland that was divided, it was the people of Ireland. The line on the map was geographical, but the real border was in the minds and hearts of the people.

When we are dealing with a human conflict whether in a divided community, a divided country, or a divided globe, it is the building of mutual trust and not mutual fear that will solve the problem of conflict."

spot on.

[delboy]

except that money will overcome all these 'fears'

sure the majority of unionist/loyalists wouldnt 'cross the border' until the celtic tiger and the lure of money..

so the lure of a 'better life' with more money etc will appeal again (to both sides)
BUT
there has to be such an incentive in place and thats not going to be in the next short to medium term...

It'd have to be some incentive to make me walk away from a national health system, somebody else mentioned that the health insurance of NI inhabitants could be paid for by the british exchequer for a peroid of time as a sweetner, TBH for me that wouldn't be enough I want my kids and grandkids to enjoy the benefits of universal health care.

[lynchbhoy]

except that money will overcome all these 'fears'

sure the majority of unionist/loyalists wouldnt 'cross the border' until the celtic tiger and the lure of money..

so the lure of a 'better life' with more money etc will appeal again (to both sides)
BUT
there has to be such an incentive in place and thats not going to be in the next short to medium term...

It'd have to be some incentive to make me walk away from a national health system, somebody else mentioned that the health insurance of NI inhabitants could be paid for by the british exchequer for a peroid of time as a sweetner, TBH for me that wouldn't be enough I want my kids and grandkids to enjoy the benefits of universal health care.

Thats exactly what I mean by the economy having to be good at the time, and that this is the level of incentive I'd expect they have to be looking at.

However, the ball may not be in the peoples court over this, as if the English gov want to jettison the six counties (well they currently want to as its costing them a fortune- but cannot) but if theysay they are 'pulling out' a la hong kong and tough luck on the residents/former subjects - as we saw in HK , there is nothing I would say that the people can do about it.
I'd hope that this is not the case as Ireland could not possibly sustain an industrial blackspot initially or for any given time if it couldnt pay its own way (or if Ireland wasnt to receive heavy subsidy from US, UK, EU etc) adn I'd hope Ireland would get a financial shot in the arm over it rather than be crippled as Germany was immediately after re-unification.
My fear is, We might not get that choice.

[delboy]

I don't think the UK can dump NI in the same way as Hong Kong, in that instance large parts of the Hong Kong territories were on a 99 year lease, so their was already structure in place for the handover.
You could more readily equate the NI situtaion with that of gibralator which by the looks of it the UK would quite happily hand back to the spanish, however they had to hold a referendum on the matter of a handover (it was annilated about 19000 to about 300 in favour of the status quo).
If they couldn't force 20 odd thousand people into something they didn't want then i couldn't see them forcing NI into something they hadn't voted for.

In my opinion the most probable end of the union would be if the english decided they had enough of being told what to do by scottish, welsh and NI MPs who all have devolved governments. If they ceded from the union it would be dead in the water making NI economically unviable it would have to unify with the rest of ireland.
Not so far fetched as it sounds, was reading some stats the other day that shiowed that the tories would pretty much have been in power the whole time from the 50s if it had been an england only election.

A bit of irony that the best hope for a unified ireland may rest in the hands of the tories (soon to be in power) and English nationalism 

[lynchbhoy]

I don't think the UK can dump NI in the same way as Hong Kong, in that instance large parts of the Hong Kong territories were on a 99 year lease, so their was already structure in place for the handover.
You could more readily equate the NI situtaion with that of gibralator which by the looks of it the UK would quite happily hand back to the spanish, however they had to hold a referendum on the matter of a handover (it was annilated about 19000 to about 300 in favour of the status quo).
If they couldn't force 20 odd thousand people into something they didn't want then i couldn't see them forcing NI into something they hadn't voted for.

In my opinion the most probable end of the union would be if the english decided they had enough of being told what to do by scottish, welsh and NI MPs who all have devolved governments. If they ceded from the union it would be dead in the water making NI economically unviable it would have to unify with the rest of ireland.
Not so far fetched as it sounds, was reading some stats the other day that shiowed that the tories would pretty much have been in power the whole time from the 50s if it had been an england only election.

A bit of irony that the best hope for a unified ireland may rest in the hands of the tories (soon to be in power) and English nationalism 

its not exactly within our control, north and south - there doesnt even have to be a ref from what I believe.
Its not altogether unlike the 'redundancy' type scenario, the 'employer' (gov) only has togive 'statuatory' compensation !


but as I said I dont want this to happen without the financial safety net and incentives being there, but can only hope this is given when the time comes !

[delboy]

That may well have been the case (im not that genned up on the constitutonal legislation of the union TBH, i'll have to swot up) but leaving that aside for the minute i thought the GFA stated that a majority of the people had to want it too happen, that to me sounds like a referendum is absolutely required.

[Rossfan]

In my opinion when the new "All Ireland" comes about it will be some form of Confederacy of 2 Semi autonomous States(26 Cos/6 Cos) each having control of many internal and day to day affairs while the Confederacy will look after major things like foreign affairs etc.
There will be a bland National Anthem( Our beautiful Island/Ar Oileán Alainn/ Oor Gron wee b it o' groon in the meddle o watter) and some kind of neutral flag -- white with a green outline of Ireland in the middle.
Then the 26 Cos can still have the Tricolour/Amhrann na bhF,Dáil etc while the 6 Cos can have its State flag and anthem ( whatever they will be  )
Residents of the 6 Cos could have Brit and Irish citizenship and it could remain part of a Commonwealth.
Then take it from there.