The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Captain Obvious]

G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.

[Piskin]

G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.

Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

[Eamonnca1]

G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.

Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

Scrapping the Iran nuclear deal and putting them back on a path to a nuclear weapon. Undermining the USA's credibility in all future international negotiations because nobody can trust them to adhere to any deal they make. Starting an unprovoked trade war with China.  Dismantling The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in the National Security Council in 2018; it had been working on preparations for a possible future pandemic. Stoking the fires of hatred and far-right terrorism that have been difficult to put out ever since. Stacking the stolen seats in the Supreme Court with far-right extremists.

[Eamonnca1]

That's the second time today I've seen a conservative claim that "mean tweets" was the only thing Trump did. Is that the Fox News talking point of the day?

[J70]

Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

You can very fairly and severely criticize America's role as "world policeman" for all these decades and how various presidents have used that power, for better or worse, to support armed conflicts,  undermine and overthrow foreign governments, and to directly intervene militarily. There is certainly plenty of appalling conduct there to choose from. Leaving aside things like Trump's changes to the transparency of stuff like drone bombings, his refusal to allow the US to cease supporting Saudi actions in Yemen, his 2011 calls for direct US military intervention in Libya and his initial support for the Iraq war, I have little doubt that Trump would have started a war if he felt it suited him. The man has little in the way of core principals beyond his own wealth and aggrandizement, and is certainly not concerned with the humanity of those that suffer due to geopolitics. If the GOP base was as blindly and aggressively supportive of war mongering as they were 20 years ago, Trump would be too, as that is what he would need to secure their support.

And no doubt there have been election shenanigans all throughout US history at all levels of government, but has there ever been a candidate who so loudly and falsely and baselessly tried to sew mayhem and doubt among the electorate to steal a presidential election, culminating in a violent and deadly coup attempt; a trail of candidates across the country who refused in advance to accept that they could lose; a ton of candidates and legislation who were openly trying to put mechanisms in place so that their states could overturn the vote of the people in the next presidential election; and a refusal to accept that Biden was a legitimately president being a litmus test for candidacy (this was even in the Texas state GOP election platform!)?

How can you be considered even a mediocre president when you don't even want to abide by the basic rules and norms to get elected and, while in office, you refuse to go quietly once the people have spoken? Trump wishes he could rule as a strongman, like his hero Putin or even "friends" like Kim Jung Un. He and his acolytes think it's "heads I win, tails you cheated" and that democratic principles shouldn't apply to them. Has there ever been another president who conducted themselves in that manor?

[Captain Obvious]

G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.

Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

Scrapping the Iran nuclear deal and putting them back on a path to a nuclear weapon. Undermining the USA's credibility in all future international negotiations because nobody can trust them to adhere to any deal they make. Starting an unprovoked trade war with China.  Dismantling The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in the National Security Council in 2018; it had been working on preparations for a possible future pandemic. Stoking the fires of hatred and far-right terrorism that have been difficult to put out ever since. Stacking the stolen seats in the Supreme Court with far-right extremists.

Yes just a small sample there.  The number of white nationalist and other hate groups has surged and is worldwide issue now thanks to Trump's time in office. What we have now is the stage of recovery and I feel sorry for Joe Biden as his four years will be mostly used on cleaning up the mess left behind by a buffoon voted in by a high number of nut jobs.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

Like Trump himself his supporters eventually get caught out on their lies.

[Gmac]

G W Bush

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=3813

D Trump

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?personid=20967

Overall ranking

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall

Some generous scoring for Trump there, history won't serve him well he'll get closer to the bottom of the ranking table as America and indeed the world try to fully recover from his time in office.

Recover from what exactly? mean tweets?

Scrapping the Iran nuclear deal and putting them back on a path to a nuclear weapon. Undermining the USA's credibility in all future international negotiations because nobody can trust them to adhere to any deal they make. Starting an unprovoked trade war with China.  Dismantling The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit in the National Security Council in 2018; it had been working on preparations for a possible future pandemic. Stoking the fires of hatred and far-right terrorism that have been difficult to put out ever since. Stacking the stolen seats in the Supreme Court with far-right extremists.

Yes just a small sample there.  The number of white nationalist and other hate groups has surged and is worldwide issue now thanks to Trump's time in office. What we have now is the stage of recovery and I feel sorry for Joe Biden as his four years will be mostly used on cleaning up the mess left behind by a buffoon voted in by a high number of nut jobs.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

Like Trump himself his supporters eventually get caught out on their lies.

big msnbc guy right here

[Captain Obvious]

big msnbc guy right here

Going by your posts on this thread an educated guess would say you are glued to OAN, Newsmax, Fox News and treat them as gospel.

[Gmac]

big msnbc guy right here

Going by your posts on this thread an educated guess would say you are glued to OAN, Newsmax, Fox News and treat them as gospel.

I think my crybaby provider probably doesn't carry them except fox so no and do you believe the gospel?

[Gmac]

So the Biden admin is behind the Trump indictment

[Captain Obvious]

big msnbc guy right here

Going by your posts on this thread an educated guess would say you are glued to OAN, Newsmax, Fox News and treat them as gospel.

I think my crybaby provider probably doesn't carry them except fox so no and do you believe the gospel?

Gospel is filled with God this and that and I don't tend to believe in something or someone I can't see.  Is Trump is God's hands right now, will he be praying forgiveness?

[Piskin]

Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

You can very fairly and severely criticize America's role as "world policeman" for all these decades and how various presidents have used that power, for better or worse, to support armed conflicts,  undermine and overthrow foreign governments, and to directly intervene militarily. There is certainly plenty of appalling conduct there to choose from. Leaving aside things like Trump's changes to the transparency of stuff like drone bombings, his refusal to allow the US to cease supporting Saudi actions in Yemen, his 2011 calls for direct US military intervention in Libya and his initial support for the Iraq war, I have little doubt that Trump would have started a war if he felt it suited him. The man has little in the way of core principals beyond his own wealth and aggrandizement, and is certainly not concerned with the humanity of those that suffer due to geopolitics. If the GOP base was as blindly and aggressively supportive of war mongering as they were 20 years ago, Trump would be too, as that is what he would need to secure their support.

And no doubt there have been election shenanigans all throughout US history at all levels of government, but has there ever been a candidate who so loudly and falsely and baselessly tried to sew mayhem and doubt among the electorate to steal a presidential election, culminating in a violent and deadly coup attempt; a trail of candidates across the country who refused in advance to accept that they could lose; a ton of candidates and legislation who were openly trying to put mechanisms in place so that their states could overturn the vote of the people in the next presidential election; and a refusal to accept that Biden was a legitimately president being a litmus test for candidacy (this was even in the Texas state GOP election platform!)?

How can you be considered even a mediocre president when you don't even want to abide by the basic rules and norms to get elected and, while in office, you refuse to go quietly once the people have spoken? Trump wishes he could rule as a strongman, like his hero Putin or even "friends" like Kim Jung Un. He and his acolytes think it's "heads I win, tails you cheated" and that democratic principles shouldn't apply to them. Has there ever been another president who conducted themselves in that manor?

Nixon, Kennedy, Trump, G W Bush and others have tampered with democracy to get or keep themselves in power.  There is I think no politician worldwide and in history who has been ethical in terms of attaining & retaining power.  I guess all we can hope for is scraps from the table at times.

You're being extremely generous to Trump on this thread for someone who claims to be a fair minded independent.

You can very fairly and severely criticize America's role as "world policeman" for all these decades and how various presidents have used that power, for better or worse, to support armed conflicts,  undermine and overthrow foreign governments, and to directly intervene militarily. There is certainly plenty of appalling conduct there to choose from. Leaving aside things like Trump's changes to the transparency of stuff like drone bombings, his refusal to allow the US to cease supporting Saudi actions in Yemen, his 2011 calls for direct US military intervention in Libya and his initial support for the Iraq war, I have little doubt that Trump would have started a war if he felt it suited him. The man has little in the way of core principals beyond his own wealth and aggrandizement, and is certainly not concerned with the humanity of those that suffer due to geopolitics. If the GOP base was as blindly and aggressively supportive of war mongering as they were 20 years ago, Trump would be too, as that is what he would need to secure their support.

And no doubt there have been election shenanigans all throughout US history at all levels of government, but has there ever been a candidate who so loudly and falsely and baselessly tried to sew mayhem and doubt among the electorate to steal a presidential election, culminating in a violent and deadly coup attempt; a trail of candidates across the country who refused in advance to accept that they could lose; a ton of candidates and legislation who were openly trying to put mechanisms in place so that their states could overturn the vote of the people in the next presidential election; and a refusal to accept that Biden was a legitimately president being a litmus test for candidacy (this was even in the Texas state GOP election platform!)?

How can you be considered even a mediocre president when you don't even want to abide by the basic rules and norms to get elected and, while in office, you refuse to go quietly once the people have spoken? Trump wishes he could rule as a strongman, like his hero Putin or even "friends" like Kim Jung Un. He and his acolytes think it's "heads I win, tails you cheated" and that democratic principles shouldn't apply to them. Has there ever been another president who conducted themselves in that manor?

Again I have pointed out what faults Trump had, and every President regardless of Party. In my time I have voted for Presidents who were either democrat or republican. Both party's suck tbh in a system that is overrun with lobbyists. Pelosi & Newsom here in california voted down a Single-Payer Health Care last year, that is fucked up. Politics in America is a shitshow and has been for decades. I didn't like Clinton but I did well fiscally during his terms and Trump I did really well fiscally even though I didn't vote for him in 2016, neither did I vote for H Clinton as I didn't like both of them. As I say both Party's suck.

[Piskin]

Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

[J70]

Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

[whitey]

Far -Right Groups have always been around just like Far-Left Groups have been. Trump is not responsible for it's rise like Obama is not responsible for BLM & Antifa. Harry Truman was a card carrying member of the KKK as was Robert Byrd & Al Gore's father but their policies or political did not reflect the KKKs views. When the vote for Civil Rights was cast more members of the Republican Party voted for it than did Democratic Party members. So everything isn't black & white "pardon the pun" in american politics muchlike everywhere else. Bidens ancestors owned slaves back in the day also.

And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's resulting Southern Strategy, the south, where all of those Democratic "Nos" came from, began a migration to the GOP.

Trump, at the very least, gave cover and encouragement to the far right. He demonized and dehumanized immigrants and Muslims. He couldn't even bring himself to unequivocally condemn the racist, murderous mob at Charlottesville. He took days to disavow the endorsement of David Duke. In a f**king presidential debate, a massive media event, he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by". His whole political persona is that white christian Americans are under attack in their own country. Not a new idea in GOP politics for sure, but one given a burst of rocket fuel by Trump.

And yet the Democrats can't  help themselves

Instead of just letting him and the other extreme Republicans self implode, they just keep providing their supporters (and middle of the road conservatives) with an alternative that's so insane and toxic, that they're keeping him in the game