The Many Faces of US Politics...

[balladmaker]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

[sid waddell]

I read this earlier, via Twitter, in relation to "protests" in Arizona;

Another group brought a guillotine to the gathering, which they explained in a letter obtained by the Arizona Republic. The letter contained misinformation about the election outcome and voter fraud and expressed their feelings toward a potential war:

"You may ask why we are here, why do we have a guillotine with us? The answer is simple," the document read. "For six weeks Americans have written emails, gathered peacefully, made phone calls and begged their elected officials to listen to their concerns. We have been ignored, ridiculed, scorned, dismissed, lied to, laughed at and essentially told, No Ones Cares."

"Let it be known, if the Constitution, our way of life, and the Freedoms that we hold so dear are threatened by internal or external enemies, we will rise to the challenge and defend this great nation by all means necessary. While we pray for Peace, but we do not fear war."

They've obviously veered way right from democracy. It's either their way or the highway. More people will die because of this.

The tactics of trying to occupy state capitol buildings and governor's mansions etc is taken from what the Russians did in Ukraine in 2014, when Russian insurgents occupied provincial state parliament buildings throughout Ukraine

The so called "Novorossiya" project of Russian insurrection had a flag which used the Confederate flag as its basis

The next thing they'll do will be to declare a People's Republic of Donetsk, sorry, Salem, or Forsyth County, Georgia

There is a serious cross pollination of ideas there, the international far right, of which Russia is the spiritual leader, are all heavily linked and sharing ideas

[sid waddell]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

[five points]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

Teddy Roosevelt tried it in 1912 and it didn't end well, putting Woodrow Wilson into the White House. Trump will be 78 in 2024. He's done.

[J70]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

Of course he can set up his own party and run.

There are several third parties in most presidential elections, usually the Greens and Libertarians. Not sure they make it onto every state ballot though.

Teddy Roosevelt got a majority of the Republican vote in 1912 when he formed the Progressive Party (or Bull Moose Party as it was nicknamed). The split cost Taft his re-election and handed the presidency to Woodrow Wilson.

Ross Perot spliced off a chunk of the GOP vote in 1992, aiding Bill Clinton.

A Trump third party would obviously cost the GOP. Might be for the best though and bring them to their senses.

[five points]

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

And you call me a fascist?

[johnnycool]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

Trump will be totally bolloxed with dementia in 4 years time.

[trailer]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

[sid waddell]

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

And you call me a fascist?

Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

[J70]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

I don't think the Dems got luck with Biden; he was chosen specifically because he was a likeable, inoffensive, moderate who could beat the extremist, boorish, unlikeable Trump.

Had Trump not been on the other ticket, then the Dems would have looked for someone else a bit more vigorous, although I still think they would have gone with a centrist type.

As you say, this election was a referendum on Donald J Trump. All Biden had to do was let him at it. Stacy Abrams and the like took care of the details of getting people out.

[sid waddell]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

[trailer]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

Ach Sid that's such a pessimistic outlook. Surely there are ordinary decent people who vote Republican who are tolerant and respectful.

[five points]

Fascism is allowing criminals control the levers of government and continue to roam the streets

Convicting criminals is democracy

I am pro-democracy and pro-justice

I've read more than enough of your posts to know you are anti-democracy, pro-nihilism and pro-fascism

There is nothing pro-justice about your call to "lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart". There is no justice in locking anyone up without a fair trial, based on an initial presumption of innocence.

Denouncing your opponents and their entire families as criminals and calling for them to be stopped from roaming the streets is textbook fascism.

[johnnycool]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

The Kochs and the Ultra Right wing Tea Party movement were bedding in with the GOP long before Trump appeared on the scene.

Trump was the icing on that particular cake in 2016.

[sid waddell]

Without knowing the in and outs of how political parties are formed in the US, and who has the right to run for President ... would it be feasible for Trump to set up his own party and run in 2024 if he so wished?  The comment from him last night that this was not the end, this is just the beginning, was disturbing.

It would split the US right-wing completely, they could not possibly win, Trump can only have even a theoretical chance of winning in 2024 if he is the Republican candidate

The Trumps are destroying the Republican party from the inside, the party has prostituted itself, it supinely bent over

I don't see how the Republicans will extricate themselves from Trump fascism now, this is an existential crisis for them and they don't realise it, they may not be able to win the presidency again until there is a generational shift and the penny drops for real with them, but that could take decades, they've lost the popular vote seven times out of eight now as it is

Any strategically minded Republicans should be begging Pelosi to impeach immediately and then vote to remove him from office, and lock the lot of the Trump crime family up quicksmart afterwards

That they are not doing this shows the true depth of their paralysis and pathology

It's like the fever dream retreat in the Tory party from 1997 on which drove them to the far right, except 100 times worse - at least

Surely there are enough ordinary decent republicans on the centre right who can chart the course back to the middle ground? Someone who would garner votes from Dems and Reps? The Dems were lucky with Biden. He wasn't a really credible candidate but the fact that he wasn't Trump seemed to get him over the line. Policy didn't matter, this election was a straight forward question. Do you want Donald Trump or not? A more credible centre right Rep would have won.

Who are they?

Romney is the only one who showed even a trace of a spine

There is little appetite for a bog standard Republican, that ideology has failed

But the so called "moderate" Republicans (an oxymoron) are actually the ones with the biggest cognitive dissonance, they are in denial about what their own ideology led to - Trump was the inevitable conclusion of it

A candidate like Romney will have a very, very hard time winning a Republican nomination for dog catcher in future, never mind a presidential nomination

The Republican base now are motivated almost entirely by hatred, which will also fail

The Kochs and the Ultra Right wing Tea Party movement were bedding in with the GOP long before Trump appeared on the scene.

Trump was the icing on that particular cake in 2016.

James Buchanan was mentioned earlier but there's a different James Buchanan who was the godfather of Koch Brothers type "libertarianism", he was a pseudo academic from Virginia who was incredibly influential

In the 1950s Buchanan came up with the ideas that led to a blizzard of far right "think tanks" and pseudo academic economic and legal "institutions" like the Hoover Institution at Stanford and the economics department at George Mason University and the legal department of the University of Miami among many others

These are the pseudo-intellectual driving forces of modern day American right-wing insanity

Buchanan's ideas came from a fervent belief that a white, property owning class should always hold the whip hand, his beliefs came from naked racism and belief in slavery - but his project was about denying that this ideology came from racism and belief in slavery

Buchanan was privately up front that the vast majority of people hated his ideas and the ideas of libertarianism, and that libertarianism inevitably led to tyranny - which he was cool with - as he showed when he helped draw up the Pinochet constitution in Chile, which has only just been done away with after four decades of mass democratic struggle

Buchanan was all about strategising - about how to dress up tyrannical ideas with "positive" buzzwords - "freedom", "reform", "liberty", "constitooooootion" etc. - he strategised about how to lie effectively - that is what American right-wing politics is all about - flagrant lying about the vultures they are - disguising a massive turd as a tempting chocolate cake

The Koch Brothers ran with his ideas wholesale - and in alliance with Murdoch media etc. this is how a hated ideology was dressed up as something positive, and tens of millions of people were lobotomised into voting against their own interests

The Koch Brothers' strategy was to put democracy in chains - ensure minority rule through mass voter suppression, then pack the courts to prevent progressive change in every aspect of society, to ensure corporate tyranny, flood the airwaves with armies of talking heads praising these disastrous ideas, mass propaganda, which would inevitably lead to fascist tyranny

Buchanan was certainly correct that the inevitable outcome of his ideas was tyranny, but as I say, he was totally cool with that, and so were the Kochs, and so was Murdoch, and so were those who went along with them all

We're now seeing that beyond any doubt