The Many Faces of US Politics...

[LCohen]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election...?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?
.

They said all that about GW Bush in 2000. And he lasted 8 years.

Who said that about GW Bush?

[J70]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election...?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?
.

They said all that about GW Bush in 2000. And he lasted 8 years.

I've no interest in an endless nit-picking debate, but you think that's the case, go ahead and make it.

IMO there is no comparison whatsoever between the two.

Bush and Gore were separated by 500 votes in one large state, a state initially called for Gore, then called for Bush, and for which Gore then had to retract his concession once the deadlocked vote became known. Gore also won the national popular vote. Of course it was contentious, fought out by the campaigns for weeks, right up to, and including the Supreme Court 5-4 decision which awarded Bush the victory. The Dems were bitter and sore (just like the GOP would understandably have been had the shoe been on the other foot), but the country moved on, just like it did after other elections.

Trump, by comparison, has had his arse handed to him but its trying every dodgy and illegitimate thing he can think of to steal the election, even as he loses case after case and any half-capable lawyers that were involved desert him. If he were to succeed, there would be a massive response, and justifiably so. This would not be a razor-thin contest decided by a razor-thin Supreme Court decision along partisan lines. This would be a blatant example of election theft akin to what happens in strongmen dictatorships.

Thankfully, he is just completely disconnected from reality, being fed a load of tripe by a bunch of power-hungry sycophants, and the country WILL be able to move on once he runs out of imaginary road.

My question is WHY he wants this or WHAT he thinks its going to be like winning in this way?

[J70]

Now he's sacked Chris Krebs, the admin cybersecurity  official who said last week that the election was secure and there was no evidence of widespread fraud.

Trump is truly a loathsome, pathetic, scummy little worm.

Now .. Now.. A worm is a useful thing😜
Donegal for Sam!!!

We can all dream!

[Gmac]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

[J70]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

[screenexile]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

He also needs to start co-ordinating with the incoming Administration and maybe a meeting with his Coronavirus taskforce this last 5 months might have helped things a bit I mean who knows??!

[Gmac]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

most democratic run states would do the opposite of a trump administration national policy on covid just look at the rhetoric about the vaccine from them, please stop with this bs , the personal hatred goes beyond anything even people dying for trump and Democrat politicians

[J70]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

He also needs to start co-ordinating with the incoming Administration and maybe a meeting with his Coronavirus taskforce this last 5 months might have helped things a bit I mean who knows??!

Yes, of course!

But the first part would involve acknowledging his defeat and the second would involve publicly admitting that COVID is a massive, real problem.

[J70]

One thing I don't get in all this, with Trump/Giuliani/Bannon's laughable campaign to have the courts throw out the vote in places like PA and Nevada, is what exactly do they think the best outcome is going to be in all of this?

Let's say they succeeded (they won't, for various reasons), and Trump somehow managed to invalidate the vote or delay certification in enough states to have their GOP legislatures appoint sets of Trump electors to allow him to "win", what kind of state would be country be in then?

Does Trump want to be president of a country on the brink of civil war? What exactly is it that he could accomplish in a situation where he blatantly, aided and abetted by the GOP, literally stole an election, just so he, Donald J. Trump, wouldn't have to suffer the embarrassment on being a one-term, "loser" president?

Would the US survive as an intact country for him to govern?

Right now he IS president and he is not even governing or showing the slightest interest in leadership as the COVID pandemic spirals out of control. He seems much less interested in the work of the presidency than he is in holding the position for reasons of vanity and prestige. What would he be like as president of a country where he engineered the theft of the election?

He is already going down as a historically poor president. He seems to lack any self-awareness that he is shredding his reputation, both as a president and a person, even further.

what do you want trump to do Covid wise that your local or state government can't do ? Ppe doesn't seem to be a problem and a vaccine is on the way in record time . I definitely don't look to Washington for guidance or Sacramento for that matter .

1. He needs to lead and coordinate a nationwide response. Have you seen a map of the current outbreak? It doesn't begin and end at state borders.
2. He needs to act like a responsible adult and leader, stop with the conspiracy shit and make it clear to his idiotic followers (including governors keen to please him) that this is real, that social distancing and mask wearing are an absolute necessity, that mask mandates are not some communist plot, and that some short-term restrictions on personal "freedoms" such as the number of people gathering together are necessary for the greater good until this vaccine gets widely disseminated.

most democratic run states would do the opposite of a trump administration national policy on covid just look at the rhetoric about the vaccine from them, please stop with this bs , the personal hatred goes beyond anything even people dying for trump and Democrat politicians

That's nonsense.

1. Some GOP-led states have also ploughed an independent path from what Trump said, because, Trump spouted a lot of shite for so long. Had Trump led a mature, science/medicine-based approach instead of politicizing the pandemic because it was an election year, (a) most of these states would have followed his lead; (b) he'd likely have been re-elected.

2. Multiple states have said they want to do their own reviews of the vaccine, and don't want to rely just on the Trump administration's say so. There may of course be some political posturing involved, but Trump is the one who politicized the pandemic and the output from the FDA and CDC in the first place. Even after Pfizer came out last week, the main thing he had to say was to complain that they'd supposedly held back on the announcement just to hurt his chances of re-election. HE is the one who months ago tied the pending announcements of the vaccines to the election. I'm perfectly happy for NY State to run a second, independent set of eyes over the vaccine review before approving it.

[armaghniac]

NY Times chart of measures vs current cases, definite pattern there. 

[Gabriel_Hurl]

a pattern of blurred vision?

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Looks like the racist coup attempt in Michigan hasn't made it into the conservative media bubble.

Apparently after agreeing to sign off on the results due to the backlash, the two GOPers then came out yesterday and said they take back their agreement!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/19/wayne-county-rescind-certifying-election/

After a phone call from a certain man at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue no less

[J70]

Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

[armaghniac]

Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

Perhaps people in Vermont are adults, likely they watch Canadian TV.

[Gmac]

Look at Vermont in that graph.

A very, very liberal state, but they just re-elected their Republican governor. Might have just a little to do with the sensible approach the state government took to the pandemic.

Biden got 66% of the vote in that state; Phil Scott, the GOP governor, got the same.

bernie is from Vermont and did a lot of canvassing for joe so there's that , Vermont is sparsely populated so not a good example of dealing with covid .