The Many Faces of US Politics...

[omochain]

stew
Hero Member

Posts: 3974


Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...

« Reply #1319 on: October 03, 2012, 10:47:51 PM »

Quote




Quote from: Oraisteach on October 03, 2012, 08:08:27 PM

"Anti-intellectualism, pseudoscience, callousness and bigotry."  A splendid synopsis.  Given their attempts to disenfrachise whole chunks of the electorate, I'd add to that list "cheating" (probably a sub-section of bigotry).  Wonder if Chad will be hanging about this time around. Not exactly enamored with the Democrats, but I sure loathe the Republicans.  Can't wait to hear Romney's pre-rehearsed ad-libs this evening.


"A splendid synopsis" my arse orais............... Obama has this country on the road to ruin, he has added 5 trillion to the defecit, how the hell can one man justify that in under four years?

Bit disengenuous there Stew you are crediting/attributing Bush's Wars and his tax cuts to Obama

I know plenty of republican supporters who are the salt of the earth, same goes for the democrats but if the clown that is Obama gets four more years this country will sneeze, and the rest of the world will catch a cold.

Whaaaaaaa? I know lots of salt of the earth people on both sides.. ergo I can say anything I choose about anybody on either side.

Obama is every bit as slick as Clinton minus the performance, he has been awful on the economy and he and his party should be held accountable for the absolutely shitty job they have done over the past four years. ( They will win it going away)

What are you talking about?
Obama and his party have been trying to dig us out of a hole that Republican party, trickle down economics (and denials that you are a not Republican are not acceptable given your rhetorical track record) have exploded us into.  Despite the intransigence of Mitch McConnelll's troops they keep trying to promote job creation ( Auto industry bailout). With a bit of co-operation and a more enthusiastic government investment program we would be looking at a more robust recovery. If you cared to look at the country that birthed you, you will notice that the place would still be in the 19th century had it not been for the ESB, IDA, Bord Bainne, Bord na Mona (all government promoted). Government is not the problem. Disrespect for what the government can do to contribute to economic growth is the problem. Regan has a lot to answer for ( His Government bad Private sector good mantra has been polarising the US for 30 years)  but now that he has been beatified who cares about the facts.

I am resigned to the democrats winning again, I know teachers etc, union member types want Obama to win, good for them, the fact is that if America is to get out of this mess it has to start with cutbacks in spending, the national debt needs to get culled and government needs to get smaller, a lot smaller, the military  needs to get hit financially and all non essential government funded projects also need to get culled, there is far too much wasted funding. All of that is just the start, the Yanks need to ensure they stop hemorrhaging jobs to overseas companies and they need to inflict heavy taxes on companies who outsource jobs.

Stew: How many hours have you spent in the classroom teaching?

[deiseach]

The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

[Declan]

Here's one reason for that big deficit

Iraq: Ten Years, a Million Lives and Trillions of Dollars Later
Time for Truth and Reconciliation

by Dennis Kucinich
Ten years ago today the debate over the Iraq War came to Congress in the form of a resolution promoted by the Bush Administration. The war in Iraq will cost the United States as much as $5 trillion. It played a role in spurring the global financial crisis. Four thousand, four hundred, eighty eight Americans were killed. More than 33,000 were injured.
American soldiers during an operation in Zabul Province in 2006. (Photo: Tyler Hicks/NYT)

As many as 1,000,000 innocent Iraqi civilians were killed. The monetary cost of the war to Iraq is incalculable. A sectarian civil war has ravaged Iraq for nearly a decade. Iraq has become home to Al Qaeda.

The war in Iraq was sold to Congress and the American people with easily disproved lies. We must learn from this dark period in American history to ensure that we do not repeat the same mistakes. And we must hold accountable those who misled the American public.

On October 2, 2002, the day the legislation to authorize war in Iraq was introduced, I sent and personally distributed a memo to my colleagues in Congress refuting point-by-point every reason given by the Bush Administration to go to war.

On October 3, 2002, I held a press conference with 25 Members of Congress and then presented an hour long explanation to Congress on the House Floor, refuting the lies upon which the cause of war was predicated.

It was clear from information publicly available at the time that Iraq did not have Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs), that Iraq had no connection to 9/11, and that Iraq was not a threat to the United States. Anyone who wanted to look could have seen the same information that I did.

Yet some of America's top political leaders bought into the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld drumbeat of war. Two leading Democrats were among those taken in by the White House hype and the WMD argument:

"I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people ... ntelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists including Al Qaeda members." Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), October 10, 2002.

"September 11 was the ultimate wake-up call. We must now do everything in our power to prevent further terrorist attacks and ensure that an attack with a weapon of mass destruction cannot happen. ... the first candidate we must worry about is Iraq... [Saddam Hussein] continues to develop weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear devices." Leader of the Democratic Caucus in the House, Richard Gephardt (D-MO), October 10, 2002.

Even the most trusted newspapers around the country blindly repeated as fact grossly incorrect assertions by leaders of both parties.

"No further debate is needed to establish that Saddam Hussein is an evil dictator whose continued effort to build unconventional weapons in defiance of clear United Nations prohibitions threatens the Middle East and beyond." The New York Times, Editorial Board, October 3, 2002.

Notwithstanding the blizzard of disinformation, one hundred thirty three Members of Congress voted against the resolution that authorized the use of military force in Iraq, including nearly two-thirds of the Democratic Caucus in the House. Seven Republicans, including Ron Paul (R-TX), also voted against the resolution. In the Senate, the vote was 77 to 23 in favor of a war of choice.

Ten years ago Congress voted to wage war on a nation that did not attack us. That decision undermined our fiscal and national security. To this day we are suffering from the blowback. While most of the troops are home, the United States maintains a significant presence in Iraq through the State Department and its thousands of private security contractors.

The war against Iraq was based on lies. Thousands of Americans and perhaps a million Iraqis were sacrificed for those lies. The war in Afghanistan continues. New wars have been propagated in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia pursuant to the never-ending "War on Terror". This mindset puts us at the edge of war against Iran. Ten years and trillions of dollars later, the American people by and large still do not know the truth. It is time to usher in a new period of truth and reconciliation.

© 2012 Congressman Dennis Kucinich

[J70]

The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Obama just looked like he didn't want to be there. Hardly defended himself or challenged Romney forcefully at all. Given that these things are all about style and "zingers" (it says so much about political campaigns and viewers that smartarse lines always win out over substance), Romney looked far, far more prepared and in command of his material (I won't say facts!) and won this one easily. It reminded me a lot of the first Bush-Kerry debate in 2004, when the sitting president had an awful night. Maybe the challenger just has more time to prepare and polish his performance. Whatever it is, Obama better get his shit together, and fast.

[GalwayBayBoy]

The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Watched most of it and I didn't think Romney was great to be honest but it was probably the worst performnace I've ever seen Obama give on camera. He was stumbling over his words fairly regularly and even seemed a bit under-prepared.

[stew]

Ah, c'mon, Stew,  First, it's not that I want Obama to win so much as I want Romney and his menagerie to lose.  And, of course, not ALL Republicans are Neanderthals, but a disturbingly large chunk of them are.  Look at J70's four descriptors, and tell me they aren't on the money for a significant slice of the FoxNews-teat-sucking birther brigade.

It's late, and I just watched Romney open a can of whoop-ass on Obama, so don't be so despondent about the future, but don't you recall the likes of Santorum mocking the elitist snobbery of higher education, or the crazy ignorance of crackpots like Akin and his theories about the female body's miraculous ability to distinguish rape sperm, or the biblical literalists who don't believe evolution and believe humans jaunted around on dinosaurs, or Irish-Catholic Paul Ryan, whose Messiah is not Jesus but Ayn Rand with her philosophy of  laissez-faire self-interest (French translates as I'm all right, screw you), or the systematic attempts to steal people's right to vote, a ploy that would make many's an Ulster Unionist blush orange with pride.

And Romney's willingness to say anything at all to win.  C'mon, Stew, time to leave Devlin's and head on out the Loughgall Road, though I suppose heading to Loughgall is the right way to to the heart of bible-thumping intolerance.

And by the way, c'mon the Ogs and beat Cross, but if they don't, c'mon Cross and beat everyone else.  How Romneyesque of me.

Orais, you want a man who has the USA spending 42% of the budget on the Government, that is the same figure as one of the pigs............Spain! How is he the right man for the job on that fact alone.

Obama has cost the Country 23,000,000 jobs in four years, he has absolutely no clu what he is doing with the economy and he has been an absolute disgrace, on the other hand Romney has created jobs, he has headed up the rise in Massachusetts pertaining to education, as he repeatedly said last night, that State is the number 1 state in the country. Orais, how can you justify voting for a man that has the country on the brink of ruin because he is clueless on how to fix the national debt and in fact added one and a quarter trillion for every year he was in office? How can you vote for a man that has added 23,000,000 people to the unemployment line.

I watched the whole thing on NBC because I did not want to hear about Fox, even they conceeded that Obama got abused and their own polls had 67% to 25% in favor of Romney, Obama looked tired and completely dropped the ball in getting at Romneys weaknesses, the 47% thing and the failure to attack his gaffes of which there are plenty.

Obama is brilliant in front of a teleprompter, when he had to man up and engage a good debater he crawled into a hole and he couldnt even look up and look Romney in the eye, in short he sucked and I am absolutely delighted.

The liberals on here should watch that debate and be honest with themselves, he has been an abomination and he is destroying the ery fabric of this great country.

[The Iceman]

No reason to get Citizenship now Stew. Romney won't need your vote after that performance....

[stew]

The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Watched most of it and I didn't think Romney was great to be honest but it was probably the worst performance I've ever seen Obama give on camera. He was stumbling over his words fairly regularly and even seemed a bit under-prepared.

That's the thing, Romney was great, he absolutely abused Obama, the polls show that, it was a disgraceful performance by the President, he was that bad because he cannot argue with the job he and his party has done.

As for the wars in the middle east, the US went in to iraq under false pretenses when Bush was the President, he got rid of Saddam and his ugly government  and he kicked Iraq out of another country they invaded. Nothing justifies what Bush did, nothing, he was a terrible President yet here is the thing, the USA has been involved in many wars, both republican and democrat Presidents have dropped the hammer and it was a Democratic President who dropped the bombs on Japan.

Obama had it right when he apologized to the American people for losing touch with them two years in...........two years later he is even more out of touch with his people.

He bailed out the top five banks because he said "they are too big to fail" what he did not say is that had a negative impact on more that 200 smaller banks that went tits up, as usual he half assed the job just like he did when he give Wall street money and the fat cats took the money and gave themselves a big fat bonus, he was not intelligent enough to think about making the money conditional upon no bonus money would be paid from those monies, come to think of it neither did his cabinet and advisors, i think that sums this dude up.

[stew]

No reason to get Citizenship now Stew. Romney won't need your vote after that performance....

Romney has no chance, I challenge any one of you lads to defend Obama on  his record while in office.

What scares me is that Romney wants to spend two trillion more on the military in his term should he get elected, that is madness in itself, if he wants to spend money he should spend it on securing Americas borders and stay the hell away from wars.

The States should not go to war unless they go in to a foreign country under the UN banner, it is time they stop fighting wars and time they did what Clinton did, focus much of the energy on domestic issues, that is what these guys have to do.

[J70]

How can you say Obama lost 23 million jobs when the economy was shedding 3/4 million jobs per month when he took office and has been adding jobs, albeit slowly, for the past couple of years?

[stew]

How can you say Obama loser 23 million jobs when the economy was shedding 3/4 million jobs per month when he took office and has been adding bombs, albeit smelly, for the past couple of years?

That is a lie!

Obama hung is head when hit with those facts last night, he had no response to that, he had many opportunities to fight back but he is so piss poor economically that he neither had the facts and he knows himself he is a blowhard, he stinks.

I wanted him to be great and defended him right out of the gate but his is going to go down as one of the worst ever......EVER.

[heganboy]

Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks

[seafoid]

The consensus seems to be that Romney kicked ass last night. When you consider that there has been another consensus in recent times that Debates Don't Matter, it makes things a lot more interesting for politics junkies.

Watched most of it and I didn't think Romney was great to be honest but it was probably the worst performance I've ever seen Obama give on camera. He was stumbling over his words fairly regularly and even seemed a bit under-prepared.

That's the thing, Romney was great, he absolutely abused Obama, the polls show that, it was a disgraceful performance by the President, he was that bad because he cannot argue with the job he and his party has done.

As for the wars in the middle east, the US went in to iraq under false pretenses when Bush was the President, he got rid of Saddam and his ugly government  and he kicked Iraq out of another country they invaded. Nothing justifies what Bush did, nothing, he was a terrible President yet here is the thing, the USA has been involved in many wars, both republican and democrat Presidents have dropped the hammer and it was a Democratic President who dropped the bombs on Japan.

Obama had it right when he apologized to the American people for losing touch with them two years in...........two years later he is even more out of touch with his people.

He bailed out the top five banks because he said "they are too big to fail" what he did not say is that had a negative impact on more that 200 smaller banks that went tits up, as usual he half assed the job just like he did when he give Wall street money and the fat cats took the money and gave themselves a big fat bonus, he was not intelligent enough to think about making the money conditional upon no bonus money would be paid from those monies, come to think of it neither did his cabinet and advisors, i think that sums this dude up.

Bush bailed out the banks, Stew

It's not as if there is any difference between the Dems and the republicans in terms of bending over for the plutocrats

[Hardy]

Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks

As far as I can make out from the US Bureau of Labour Statistics data, the labour force in January 2009, at the time of Obama's inauguration, was 154.6 million and the unemployment rate was 7.8%, meaning there were 12 million unemployed, approximately.

Today, the labour force is 154.2 million, approximately and the unemployment rate is 8.1%, meaning there are approximately 12.5 million unemployed, or half a million more than when Obama took office.

Unemployment reached a peak of 10% of a workforce of 153.8 million, i.e. 15.4 million unemployed, in October 2009, nine months into the Obama presidency. Since then, the number unemployed has fallen by 2.9 million.

[stew]

Stew,
how did Obama lose 23 million jobs- where are you getting this number?
Thanks

One source was Romney last night, the President bowed his head and never once denied that these numbers, I have also seen various statistical sources that back that up, some go as low as 19 million, some as high as 25 mil.

the job figures come out tomorrow, I hope the number is way up.