What is a Third Man Tackle

[brokencrossbar1]

What would be seen as a "third man tackle" would be a situation where for example, I have passed the ball to a team mate.  I see an opposition player going in to tackle him.  To prevent him carrying out the tackle I shoulder him and let my team-mate away.  That was always seen as  "third man tackle" and is clearly covered under Rule 5.25 (c).  Anything else comes down to interpretation by the referee of what happens on the field, not the rule itself.  The rule is clear-cut to me, to commit a foul under this rule there has to be a "charge", a physical and aggressive movement towards an opposing player.  To stand in front of someone and block their run does not constitute a charge, to "shield" the ball or one of your team mates does not constitute a charge, to hand off a player as he runs past you, IMHO, would not be a charge.  The last one may be a foul under another rule, but certainly not under this rule.  

Feck, The Frank Murphyism is starting to seep into me through osmosis!!!  

would a step into his path not be considered as a form of 'charge'
whereby the'charge' is not the act of actually hitting/colliding with the person, but 'charge' could be interpreted as knowingly obstructing the guy?
....and charge being the ac of movement....

I'd say some brolly/logan type could make a case for that !

Every dictionary definition for the word charge refers to an aggressive move towards another person/item etc.  The wording of the rule is quite clear that for there to be a foul there has to be a "charge".  The common usage of charge is that someone makes a forceful move against someone/something else.  There is no intent to charge.  If someone obstructs another player then the active part of that is the person who is blocked, and under this rule he technically could be accused of a "charge" under this rule. 

The third man tackle has developed through misinterpretation of a rule over a period of time, until it has become acceptable that it actually is a rule itself.  If the GAA want to look at the rule and clarify it, well and good.  I have previously stated that there needs to be a wholesale review of the rules by a body who would have the expertise to see through the nuances the way Frank Murphy can and clear up all the ambiguities.  HAving the tw you mentioned along with Frank would be a great start.

[Spirit of 94]

which rules in particular?

could it not just be that they don't know the rules?

The consensus on here favours Rule 5.25, but personally I can see how a referee might interpret Rule 5.16 to suit.

To suggest that referees just don't know the rules, now there's a ridiculous concept if you're looking for one.

[kevmy]

Third man tackle wouldn't be the only mythical rule. The "rolling  ball" one really gets me. Where did people ever get that stupid idea from?

From a bobbling ball. If the ball hit a divot or is still hopping at a low level from a pass then ball is in the air and as such can be just plucked from the air. Now obviously lads see this and some reckon the ball was only rolling and not bobbling, then they say well if he got away with picking up a rolling ball so can I. Over time it becomes confused in some people's mind.

Although I agree the rule is crystal clear, if the ball is not in the air, the toe has to go under it.

[Franko]

Third man tackle wouldn't be the only mythical rule. The "rolling  ball" one really gets me. Where did people ever get that stupid idea from?

Or what about the famous shout in hurling... "He's got no hurl ref!"

[The GAA]

To suggest that referees just don't know the rules, now there's a ridiculous concept if you're looking for one.

[Spirit of 94]

I know the general consensus on here has been for Rule 5.25 (my own preference was 5.16) but I think we've all been barking up the wrong tree.



1.6 Player(s) may tackle an opponent for the ball.

1.7 Provided he has at least one foot on the
ground, a player may make a side-to-side
charge on an opponent:-

(a) who is in possession of the ball, or
(b) who is playing the ball, or
(c) when both players are moving in the
direction of the ball to play it.


A player cannot be tackeld unless he has possession of the ball, or is moving in the direction of the ball with an opponent to play it.

The RULE is in fact quite clear and the "third man tackle" is indeed an offence as a tackle is being made on a player whois not in possession of the ball.

[Hardy]

A tackle is defined elsewhere as being on the ball, not the man. So Rule 1.7 is not defining a form of tackle. It's saying you are allowed to shoulder charge in the manner described.

Since the rule book has lots of definitions elsewhere of what's not allowed (tripping, holding, pushing, punching, kicking, etc.), I'd submit that  the law-makers' approach is clearly to list what is NOT allowed, which leads to the reasonable assumption that anything not listed IS allowed. Therefore if they had meant to define obstructing a player's path as a foul, it's reasonable to assume they'd have listed it with all the other stuff that's not allowed.

[The GAA]

I know the general consensus on here has been for Rule 5.25 (my own preference was 5.16) but I think we've all been barking up the wrong tree.



1.6 Player(s) may tackle an opponent for the ball.

1.7 Provided he has at least one foot on the
ground, a player may make a side-to-side
charge on an opponent:-

(a) who is in possession of the ball, or
(b) who is playing the ball, or
(c) when both players are moving in the
direction of the ball to play it.


A player cannot be tackeld unless he has possession of the ball, or is moving in the direction of the ball with an opponent to play it.

The RULE is in fact quite clear and the "third man tackle" is indeed an offence as a tackle is being made on a player whois not in possession of the ball.

None of this prohibits standing your ground and shielding the ball or ball carrier

[Spirit of 94]

I know the general consensus on here has been for Rule 5.25 (my own preference was 5.16) but I think we've all been barking up the wrong tree.



1.6 Player(s) may tackle an opponent for the ball.

1.7 Provided he has at least one foot on the
ground, a player may make a side-to-side
charge on an opponent:-

(a) who is in possession of the ball, or
(b) who is playing the ball, or
(c) when both players are moving in the
direction of the ball to play it.


A player cannot be tackeld unless he has possession of the ball, or is moving in the direction of the ball with an opponent to play it.

The RULE is in fact quite clear and the "third man tackle" is indeed an offence as a tackle is being made on a player whois not in possession of the ball.

None of this prohibits standing your ground and shielding the ball or ball carrier

So how many players do you see doing just this, without raising thier hands to fend off the opponent?

From Hogan Stand January 2005;

We have in fact the best-defined tackle in any field game I know. The tackle is on the BALL, not the man. How clearer can it be? The difficulty is when players go outside this simple definition and start tackling the man by pulling, dragging, tripping, charging, elbowing, kicking and sometimes with the closed fist. By the way, it must always be the open hand, but again, that got lost somewhere in translation.

[The GAA]

you see it plenty actually from astute players. standing hands in the air, perfectly in the tackler's way telling the ref he's not involved. similar to the off side forward in rugby telling the ref he doesn't mean to be in the scrum halfs way.

we do not have the best defined tackle in a field game. despite the rules, there is incidental contact allowed. certainly, the shoulder charge is n ot tackling the ball.

[Spirit of 94]

you see it plenty actually from astute players. standing hands in the air, perfectly in the tackler's way telling the ref he's not involved. similar to the off side forward in rugby telling the ref he doesn't mean to be in the scrum halfs way.

we do not have the best defined tackle in a field game. despite the rules, there is incidental contact allowed. certainly, the shoulder charge is n ot tackling the ball.

Afraid I must disagree, most players I have seen tend to use both hands to (i) protect themselves and (ii) make sure they stop/ slow down their opponent.

The shoulder charge is a tackle for the ball in many cases especially if the player in possession drops the ball as a result of the tackle. John McEntee's tackle on Martin Harney in Ulster Final springs to mind.

[The GAA]

Afraid I must disagree, most players I have seen tend to use both hands to (i) protect themselves and (ii) make sure they stop/ slow down their opponent.

we seem to be talkig about different scenarios here. you seem to be talking about a passer being "taken out" by a would be tackler. i'm talking generally about shielding a ball carrier from your own team... shepharding as the aussies call it

The shoulder charge is a tackle for the ball in many cases especially if the player in possession drops the ball as a result of the tackle. John McEntee's tackle on Martin Harney in Ulster Final springs to mind.

ah come on now, that's nonsense. By no stretch of the imagination is a shoulder charg a tackle on the ball.

[Spirit of 94]

Afraid I must disagree, most players I have seen tend to use both hands to (i) protect themselves and (ii) make sure they stop/ slow down their opponent.

we seem to be talkig about different scenarios here. you seem to be talking about a passer being "taken out" by a would be tackler. i'm talking generally about shielding a ball carrier from your own team... shepharding as the aussies call it

The shoulder charge is a tackle for the ball in many cases especially if the player in possession drops the ball as a result of the tackle. John McEntee's tackle on Martin Harney in Ulster Final springs to mind.

ah come on now, that's nonsense. By no stretch of the imagination is a shoulder charg a tackle on the ball.

1. Maybe you start a different thread on shielding (or shepherding).  This one is about the third man tackle.

2. IMO the Rule clearly indicates that a shoulder charge is a pre-cursor to gaining possession of the ball from an opponent, either as a result of the initial charge or subsequent tackle.  This might not always be the end result (more often than not its not) but that's the intention.

[The GAA]

1. Maybe you start a different thread on shielding (or shepherding).  This one is about the third man tackle.

Eh, no. what i'm talking about is a "third man tackle" in the traditional sense. what you're talking about has never been known as anthing other than a late tackle boss.

2. IMO the Rule clearly indicates that a shoulder charge is a pre-cursor to gaining possession of the ball from an opponent, either as a result of the initial charge or subsequent tackle.  This might not always be the end result (more often than not its not) but that's the intention.

ballax. in no way can a shoulder charge be deemed a tackle on the ball as you are attempting to claim.

someone with a bit of cop on help me out here.

[heganboy]

someone with a bit of cop on help me out here.

as Jack once said

think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.