Man Utd Thread:

[Denn Forever]

Don't talk sense Norf.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Even before Rooney's great goal I was worried about the ref. It wasn't just the failure to send Luiz off and the joke of a penalty given to Chelsea or the penalty not given to United for Terry's handball - he was at it all night. Ivanovic sat on Nani after Nani nutmegged him out at the corner flag and it was "play on"! One of those nights but please in future spare us the "United own the refs" garbage. It is bloody annoying granted and its happening too much against Chelsea for my liking!

Great game to face into to start the recovery. Liverpool have been a bit more spirited under Dalglish so will be tough to beat but to win the title United have to start picking up a few away wins at tricky places.

I'll replay because you usually chat sense.

1. You never mentioned Chelsea's disallowed goal?
2. Ivanovic and Nani tumbled together. It looked like both over balanced OR Nani pulled him back.
3. The Terry penalty incident would've been very harsh. Ball hit with pace and hands tight by his side. If it was deliberate that's the 'back up keeper' issue sorted.
4. You never mentioned Rooney's dive in the penalty box that should've been a yellow.
5. Luiz definately should've got red. No doubt. Any reason with Hernandez held his face when Luiz fouled him considering the charge was to the chest.
6. No mention of Rooney's charge on Ramieres (I think it's called the 'McCarthy') that should've been a yellow.
7. The penalty I was not too sure about until the after match replays. Definately a pen on play back.

The last few games when Chelsea have been very poor e.g. Liverpool and Everton at home we've had clear, clear penalties turned down (Johnson's push on Ivan and Howard felling Ramires). However I've not really gone on about it because we deserved nowt out of the games. Sometimes you get the luck you deserve. Last night, Chelsea were very unlucky not to score via Zhirkov and Ivan. In my opinion the luck via the Luiz decision was earned and the best team won.

That's a bit extreme. Bad decisions changed the result of the match alright but if we go down that route the season would never get finished.

[ross4life]

Carroll is in line for his debut on Sunday so..expect a debut goal v Smalling,Brown partnership

After Sunday the run-ins are similar e.g Arselona have Pool at home & Fulham,Stoke,Bolton,Spurs away all potential banana skins

United have Chelsea at home & away to Newcastle,West ham,Blackburn,Arse

After last night's win i expect Chelsea to have a strong finish to the season they will end up with around 75-77 points.

[gawa316]

Carroll is in line for his debut on Sunday so..expect a debut goal v Smalling,Brown partnership

seroiusly doubt that but hope I'm wrong

[Boycey]

I think there is a grain of truth in it. It's almost a self fulfilling prophesy and it occurs throughout the sporting world whenever there is human involvement in the adjudication process. The good teams always seem to get proportionally more decisions in their favour than the poor teams. Sometimes it's because they are the better team, and therefore are actually *earning* the fouls or whatever. But sometimes it's because the referees, who are human, know that one team is better than the other, and always look at the match with that in their subconscious.

I think if you look at 'questionable' decisions, the great teams get them in their favour more often than not, simply because they have made themselves great and the referees give them the sub conscious benefit of the doubt. But it's not just Manchester United, indeed it's not just soccer. Look at Kerry, Kilkenny, Tyrone now, the Miami Heat, The Pittsburgh Steelers, All Blacks Rugby. It happens, and it's human nature.

Of course there are the exceptions that prove the rule, but they normally come against other 'big teams' such as last night. I doubt you'd have seen Sunderland get the benefit of those decisions for example.

A lot of sense in there AZ and I'd agree with a lot of it but I think there is also another factor in play. Decisions that go against the weaker teams live longer in the memory than ones that go against the good teams. In most cases the good team will overcome the poor decision and go on to win the game or the decision will come when they already have the game well under control wheras the one that goes against the weaker team will probably deprive them of their one chance of winning the game and will attract the ire of their manager/players/fans and bring multiple television replays and column inches.

[Bingo]

I think there is a grain of truth in it. It's almost a self fulfilling prophesy and it occurs throughout the sporting world whenever there is human involvement in the adjudication process. The good teams always seem to get proportionally more decisions in their favour than the poor teams. Sometimes it's because they are the better team, and therefore are actually *earning* the fouls or whatever. But sometimes it's because the referees, who are human, know that one team is better than the other, and always look at the match with that in their subconscious.

I think if you look at 'questionable' decisions, the great teams get them in their favour more often than not, simply because they have made themselves great and the referees give them the sub conscious benefit of the doubt. But it's not just Manchester United, indeed it's not just soccer. Look at Kerry, Kilkenny, Tyrone now, the Miami Heat, The Pittsburgh Steelers, All Blacks Rugby. It happens, and it's human nature.

Of course there are the exceptions that prove the rule, but they normally come against other 'big teams' such as last night. I doubt you'd have seen Sunderland get the benefit of those decisions for example.

A lot of sense in there AZ and I'd agree with a lot of it but I think there is also another factor in play. Decisions that go against the weaker teams live longer in the memory than ones that go against the good teams. In most cases the good team will overcome the poor decision and go on to win the game or the decision will come when they already have the game well under control wheras the one that goes against the weaker team will probably deprive them of their one chance of winning the game and will attract the ire of their manager/players/fans and bring multiple television replays and column inches.

Very sensible lads, no fun at all 

Think someone at Liverpool once said something along the lines of; of course we get more penalties than other teams, we spend more time in the oppositions box than any other team. Prob Shankly said it.

[thebigfella]

Even before Rooney's great goal I was worried about the ref. It wasn't just the failure to send Luiz off and the joke of a penalty given to Chelsea or the penalty not given to United for Terry's handball - he was at it all night. Ivanovic sat on Nani after Nani nutmegged him out at the corner flag and it was "play on"! One of those nights but please in future spare us the "United own the refs" garbage. It is bloody annoying granted and its happening too much against Chelsea for my liking!

Great game to face into to start the recovery. Liverpool have been a bit more spirited under Dalglish so will be tough to beat but to win the title United have to start picking up a few away wins at tricky places.

I'll replay because you usually chat sense.

1. You never mentioned Chelsea's disallowed goal?
2. Ivanovic and Nani tumbled together. It looked like both over balanced OR Nani pulled him back.
3. The Terry penalty incident would've been very harsh. Ball hit with pace and hands tight by his side. If it was deliberate that's the 'back up keeper' issue sorted.4. You never mentioned Rooney's dive in the penalty box that should've been a yellow.
5. Luiz definately should've got red. No doubt. Any reason with Hernandez held his face when Luiz fouled him considering the charge was to the chest.
6. No mention of Rooney's charge on Ramieres (I think it's called the 'McCarthy') that should've been a yellow.
7. The penalty I was not too sure about until the after match replays. Definately a pen on play back.

The last few games when Chelsea have been very poor e.g. Liverpool and Everton at home we've had clear, clear penalties turned down (Johnson's push on Ivan and Howard felling Ramires). However I've not really gone on about it because we deserved nowt out of the games. Sometimes you get the luck you deserve. Last night, Chelsea were very unlucky not to score via Zhirkov and Ivan. In my opinion the luck via the Luiz decision was earned and the best team won.

Sorry he deliberately lent into block the ball with his arms leading, Terry does this all the time too. Whether or not they up or by his side it's still a penalty. Ray Wilkins agreed too; even though it would have been harsh  , clearly should have been a penalty (they even used Luiz getting a wack in the balls of an example how to defend).

[Minder]

Ferdinand wil be playing, Jedi mind tricks again.

[ExiledGael]

Even before Rooney's great goal I was worried about the ref. It wasn't just the failure to send Luiz off and the joke of a penalty given to Chelsea or the penalty not given to United for Terry's handball - he was at it all night. Ivanovic sat on Nani after Nani nutmegged him out at the corner flag and it was "play on"! One of those nights but please in future spare us the "United own the refs" garbage. It is bloody annoying granted and its happening too much against Chelsea for my liking!

Great game to face into to start the recovery. Liverpool have been a bit more spirited under Dalglish so will be tough to beat but to win the title United have to start picking up a few away wins at tricky places.

I'll replay because you usually chat sense.

1. You never mentioned Chelsea's disallowed goal?
2. Ivanovic and Nani tumbled together. It looked like both over balanced OR Nani pulled him back.
3. The Terry penalty incident would've been very harsh. Ball hit with pace and hands tight by his side. If it was deliberate that's the 'back up keeper' issue sorted.
4. You never mentioned Rooney's dive in the penalty box that should've been a yellow.
5. Luiz definately should've got red. No doubt. Any reason with Hernandez held his face when Luiz fouled him considering the charge was to the chest.
6. No mention of Rooney's charge on Ramieres (I think it's called the 'McCarthy') that should've been a yellow.
7. The penalty I was not too sure about until the after match replays. Definately a pen on play back.

The last few games when Chelsea have been very poor e.g. Liverpool and Everton at home we've had clear, clear penalties turned down (Johnson's push on Ivan and Howard felling Ramires). However I've not really gone on about it because we deserved nowt out of the games. Sometimes you get the luck you deserve. Last night, Chelsea were very unlucky not to score via Zhirkov and Ivan. In my opinion the luck via the Luiz decision was earned and the best team won.

Can't let all that go, a few to take issue with:
3. Terry's hands were definitely not by his side and his arm was pushed towards the ball to make the block. He reacted to the shot and moved his arm towards the ball. Whether he moved his chest close to that is irrelevant.
5. A reverse angle clearly showed his shoulder met with Hernandez's chin. That was certainly not a dive or faking, not that it had any influence whatsoever anyway.
6. Rooney met Ramires with his shoulder and was side by side, it was not a yellow and in the English game probably not even a free.

[ross4life]

Ferdinand wil be playing, Jedi mind tricks again.

Rio hasn't been able to train since he injured his calf in the warm up before the Wolves game, Fergie will be hoping he's back for the Marseille game.

& Evra is also a big doubt for Sunday went off with a bang to the knee last night with 10mins to go.



   

[anportmorforjfc]

Ferdinand wil be playing, Jedi mind tricks again.

Rio hasn't been able to train since he injured his calf in the warm up before the Wolves game, Fergie will be hoping he's back for the Marseille game.

& Evra is also a big doubt for Sunday went off with a bang to the knee last night with 10mins to go.



   

Are you Mike Phelan? How do you know all this shit about Rio not being able to train and Fergie hoping that he will be back for Marseille?

[ross4life]

I choose to remain anonymous.

[Bingo]

I choose to remain anonymous.

I think he's Gary Neville.

[Boycey]

Ferdinand wil be playing, Jedi mind tricks again.

Rio hasn't been able to train since he injured his calf in the warm up before the Wolves game, Fergie will be hoping he's back for the Marseille game.

& Evra is also a big doubt for Sunday went off with a bang to the knee last night with 10mins to go.



   

Are you Mike Phelan? How do you know all this shit about Rio not being able to train and Fergie hoping that he will be back for Marseille?

Maybe he reads the papers, looks at the internet?

[anportmorforjfc]

Ferdinand wil be playing, Jedi mind tricks again.

Rio hasn't been able to train since he injured his calf in the warm up before the Wolves game, Fergie will be hoping he's back for the Marseille game.

& Evra is also a big doubt for Sunday went off with a bang to the knee last night with 10mins to go.



   

Are you Mike Phelan? How do you know all this shit about Rio not being able to train and Fergie hoping that he will be back for Marseille?

Maybe he reads the papers, looks at the internet?

Maybe they aren't correct?