Tommy Murphy Cup R.I.P.

[INDIANA]

the gaa don't want to have to scrap the competition and say it was  dumb idea. I don't see how the gaa has the right to impose a competition on teams that don't want to play in it. Like i said the fact that most of them will be regularly hockeyed every year is entirely their business but if that's what they want to do then that's their decision.
Hypocritical though to say it causes club fixtures problems when the international rules causes more bloody problems than anything else for club fixtures. The tommy murphy cup was a badly attended joke of  a competition that played havoc with club fixtures from what i could see.

[cornafean]

I am still wondering if its appropriate for the Association's Director General to hold a full-time paid executive position while at the same time attempting to influence Congress by publicly advocating policy positions that so clearly discriminate against the interests of a number of counties.

[Onlooker]

I am still wondering if its appropriate for the Association's Director General to hold a full-time paid executive position while at the same time attempting to influence Congress by publicly advocating policy positions that so clearly discriminate against the interests of a number of counties.

I was more than surprised at Padraig Duffy's intervention in this debate and his support for a continuance of a system that discriminated seriously against a number of counties.  It was clearly unfair that every county could get a second chance in the Championship except 8 counties in Division 4.  This year, for example, the winners of the Munster Championship match between Clare and Waterford would have to beat Kerry to get into the qualifiers.  How can Duffy or anyone else say that is a fair system.  Congress took a fair and wise decision last week and I would have been very angry if Duffy had swayed the vote on this issue.

[magpie seanie]

Duffy is starting off to be a bit of a disappointment.

[burgh]

cant understand what duffy could be seeing. the tommy murphy cup was an unsuccesfull experiment. as some1 previously said, if the reward for winning the tommy murphy was place in the qualifiers at some stage then it might have been more successful. several counties have benefited greatly from the qualifiers and this is far better for improving weak counties. for instance sligo and longford are two teams who greatly improved from the qualifier system, these two teams play this weekend with a good chance of one of them been relegated to division 4 for next year. the tommy murphy system would then prevent them from gaining access to qualifiers if they dont make provincal final. that would be a disaster for either team and more counties in similar system. i also think a number of division 4 teams have a chance of affecting the championship, offaly in particular

[INDIANA]

i doubt any div 4 team will have any impact on the qualifiers or the championship this year- antrim might cause a surprise but the rest are poor. but they are entitled to play in the qualifiers if they want to- the gaa shouldn't be shoving counties into mickey mouse tournaments they don't want to play in. the fact that on average they will be hockeyed most years is their decision.

[Rossfan]

i doubt any div 4 team will have any impact on the qualifiers or the championship this year-

You are dead right as none of them can play in the Qualifiers unless they get to their Provincial Final.
The new( or return of the old) scenario only comes into play in 2009.

[Bogball XV]

i doubt any div 4 team will have any impact on the qualifiers or the championship this year-

You are dead right as none of them can play in the Qualifiers unless they get to their Provincial Final.
The new( or return of the old) scenario only comes into play in 2009.

Which is stupid too, if the rule is stupid next year, it's also stupid this year.  Maybe they reckon it would play havoc with 'The Master Fixtures' as set out on the gaa website - it makes me angry even thinking about that site tbh.

[burgh]

Which is stupid too, if the rule is stupid next year, it's also stupid this year.  Maybe they reckon it would play havoc with 'The Master Fixtures' as set out on the gaa website - it makes me angry even thinking about that site tbh


i agree with ya there its stupid for this summer too. so the teams that get regulated to division 4 wont play in qualifiers dis summer f dont make prov final? wel i reckon sligo limerick and longford are not bad teams and could be in that senario. some of the teams at the bottom of div 4 are very poor though

[Rossfan]

[ the gaa website - it makes me angry even thinking about that site tbh.

Why
Are you against modern technology or what?

[burgh]

Perhaps if the 'experiment' was let run for more than 1 year we could have seen attitudes change.
[/quote]


wel i suppose it would take time for something like that to develop properly but it doesnt seem right to be forcing teams into it while its still a bit of a joke.

[Rossfan]

Is it not also a joke to think that all teams are equal?
How come every County has 3 grades of club championships but this model cant be copied at Inter County?
In the longer term wouldnt it be in Counties' best interests if they were participating in a Championship which they had a possibility of winning?
I think you'll find most Counties are delighted with the 3 levels of Hurling championship.
However with the less clear cut gaps in standards a rigid system like that would be unsuitable for football.
Surely the Provincial system plus performances in the previous year's Championship could decide 16 teams to compete for Sam while the rest could compete for a level 2 and a level 3 All Ireland.
After all what will the system being re adopted from 2009 do for Waterford/Carlow/Clare etc.
Far better for those teams have a realistic Championship to aim for.

[Maguire01]

Does the current system not make Division 3 and 4 a bit more interesting though?  Let's not get over excited talking about Offaly - they were unlucky to end up in Division 4 due to the restructuring of the leagues and were no more a Division 4 team than Fermanagh were a Division 3 team and Kildare and Laois Division 1 teams.  The league will take a while to settle itself out.  Otherwise, i think the system is fair enough as it is.  Smaller counties have a chance to play and win in Croke Park in a competitive manner. 

Maybe the winner could get back into the AI, as has been suggested, but i'm not sure how this would work - who would they play?  They would leave an odd number of teams in it at some stage and require another county to play off against them in an extra game.  There's also the fact that even the TMC winners would be well out of their depth at QF stage, yet the competition couldn't be run off any quicker to let them back into the AI series any earlier.

[Lone Shark]

Is it not also a joke to think that all teams are equal?
How come every County has 3 grades of club championships but this model cant be copied at Inter County?
In the longer term wouldnt it be in Counties' best interests if they were participating in a Championship which they had a possibility of winning?
I think you'll find most Counties are delighted with the 3 levels of Hurling championship.
However with the less clear cut gaps in standards a rigid system like that would be unsuitable for football.
Surely the Provincial system plus performances in the previous year's Championship could decide 16 teams to compete for Sam while the rest could compete for a level 2 and a level 3 All Ireland.
After all what will the system being re adopted from 2009 do for Waterford/Carlow/Clare etc.
Far better for those teams have a realistic Championship to aim for.

Please stop comparing this to hurling - it's a completely different ball game, if you'll pardon the cliché. If we took the top Christy Ring teams of Carlow and Westmeath and put either of them in a match with Kilkenny they'd get slaughtered. Half the fricking Liam McCarthy teams would as well. Now have a look at the leagues and see what counties are around the same national ranking in football - Armagh, Meath and Cork. Are you telling me Kerry would beat any of those by 20 points? I know you're saying 16 as opposed to 12, but seeing as right now that sixteen would not include Roscommon, are you telling me that the fans of Roscommon would be happy playing for a second tier trophy? Would you be happy with that?

Plus all this thing about having a championship to aim for, or a winnable tournament to play in - you named three teams, including Clare. Clare entered and won a "winnable" competition already this year - the McGrath Cup. And it wasn't worth tuppence to them in the league as they promptly went out and lost four games on the bounce in division 4. Winning a competition only means something if the competition itself means something - and the Tommy Murphy Cup didn't, at least not as long as teams were forced to enter at gunpoint. Winning a competition where half the competitors have to ring around to round up fifteen on the morning of the game is not something that will set a county to rights.

[Bogball XV]

[ the gaa website - it makes me angry even thinking about that site tbh.

Why
Are you against modern technology or what?

No, but seemingly the GAA are.

On the TM cup itself, the only way to make it a competition worth having would have been to play it off prior to say, the 3rd round qualifiers, and stick the winners of the TM in there, that would have the advantage of allowing the best of the 8 sides (not deemed worthy enough) a shot at the big boys, and I'd fancy the odd shock coming from that fixture, whilst giving them all a second chance. 
The same could be done with Ulster hurling championship, the winners should advance to a leinster semi-final or something, basically the gaa have to realise that competitions that don't lead into the main competiton are meaningless.  The sooner we adopt an open draw and base seedings on that years league campaign the better.