Tommy Murphy Cup R.I.P.

[INDIANA]

i think the point rossfan is making is that realistically in theory only about 6 counties can win sam and in relaistic terms its smaller than that. that in 10 year stime there still won;t be any new names on the trophy. the gap is smaller in football because hurling skill wise is more difficult to master but those counties seem to be happiest while playing in the qualifiers and i don't see and other alternative system that those counties will be happy with. and they are entitled to that.

[Rossfan]

? I know you're saying 16 as opposed to 12, but seeing as right now that sixteen would not include Roscommon, are you telling me that the fans of Roscommon would be happy playing for a second tier trophy? Would you be happy with that?

. Winning a competition where half the competitors have to ring around to round up fifteen on the morning of the game is not something that will set a county to rights.

If Ros werent good enough then into Tier 2 with us. It would give us something to aim for as we rebuild.
As for ringing around looking for a team -well that's hardly my fault is it?
Surely a properly structured Div 2 and Div 3 Championship with a double header set of Finals in Croke Park on a date set aside for the little Counties would be a winner?
Obviously the winners would be automatically guaranteed to play in the next level up the following year.

Leaving the structure as is from 2009 - how long before someone starts saying this is unfair, 2 hammerings per year is no good to anyone etc. Then in will rush Breheny to start his usual inconsistent rantings and we'll have to review it all again.
And so on ad infinitum etc and world without end amen.

[Lone Shark]

If Ros werent good enough then into Tier 2 with us. It would give us something to aim for as we rebuild.
As for ringing around looking for a team -well that's hardly my fault is it?

Are you honestly telling me that Roscommon fans would graciously accept it if there was a redesign of the Championship structure and they weren't allowed compete for the All Ireland? I live next door to ye and I've never met a county with such ridiculously optimistic fans, or fans with such an inflated view of their own standing. I don't believe for a second that there wouldn't be riots on the streets of Boyle and Castlerea. (well, more than usual...  )

Of course it's not your fault - it's the fault of a competition that there is no merit to winning. So why perpetuate it?

[Rossfan]

[
Are you honestly telling me that Roscommon fans would graciously accept it if there was a redesign of the Championship structure and they weren't allowed compete for the All Ireland?,

Are you honestly telling me that we will be competing for the 2008 All Ireland?
Or that at least 20 other Counties will be?
At a stretch Kerry,Cork,Galway,Mayo,Dublin, Meath,Monaghan,Armagh,Tyrone,Derry and Donegal will be.
Add 5 more to make 16 - Down/Laois/Kildare/ Westmeath/?...
As for the rest - next 8 play for level 2
                       Remainder for level 3.
Now before you lep down me throat - tell me any County that has a single tier Club Championship only.

[Bord na Mona man]

i think the point rossfan is making is that realistically in theory only about 6 counties can win sam and in relaistic terms its smaller than that.

That's probably true.
But then why not banish 20+ other counties to compete in the Tommy Murphy so?
At least they have a more realistic shot a national trophy once the Kerrys or Tyrones are taken out of their way.
It will make little material difference to the overall outcome of the championship.
Why was it right to put the cut off at Division 4 and not Division 3 for example?

I think the weak counties were an easy target to pick on because they weren't going to lodge a serious or sustained objection.
Unfortunately these sort of actions by the GAA play into the hands of the GPA who strive towards elitism and a tiered rewarding system.

[Bogball XV]

Leaving the structure as is from 2009 - how long before someone starts saying this is unfair, 2 hammerings per year is no good to anyone etc. Then in will rush Breheny to start his usual inconsistent rantings and we'll have to review it all again.
And so on ad infinitum etc and world without end amen.

The point many of us have been trying to make is that there are only about 4 teams who suffer 2 hammerings every year - and not even that many to be honest.
As for playing a double header of D2 and D3 finals in Croker, might be better to fix the venue for Tolka Park.

[Rossfan]

As for playing a double header of D2 and D3 finals in Croker, might be better to fix the venue for Tolka Park.

And fix the League Finals for there too especially when Kerry and or Galway get to Finals.
Or should we abolish the League as well as it's tiered and interferes with club fixtures.

[Maguire01]

i think the point rossfan is making is that realistically in theory only about 6 counties can win sam and in relaistic terms its smaller than that.

That's probably true.
But then why not banish 20+ other counties to compete in the Tommy Murphy so?At least they have a more realistic shot a national trophy once the Kerrys or Tyrones are taken out of their way.
It will make little material difference to the overall outcome of the championship.
Why was it right to put the cut off at Division 4 and not Division 3 for example?

I think the weak counties were an easy target to pick on because they weren't going to lodge a serious or sustained objection.
Unfortunately these sort of actions by the GAA play into the hands of the GPA who strive towards elitism and a tiered rewarding system.

I think the difference is that there is another number of teams, who whilst not likely to land the big prize, can be genuinely competitive in the AI series.  Those in Division 4 generally can't be.