Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Until someone says how much money is available from all sources GAA, Irish Government, Stormont and UK the GAA won't know what it can or cannot build.
3 uncovered stands and one side of covered seating seems to be a wasted opportunity and would show a lack of ambition. Doesn't have to be an all seater mega stadium but lets hope Ulster and Antrim end up with something we actually want to attend, not another set of concrete steps to stand out in the rain on.

It's already known the Stormont has £62m, GAA £15m, 26 Co taxpayers €50m.
Only unknown is will the Brits give anything and how much.
Ambition is a great yoke but the real world needs you to pay for it.

That €50m from Dublin was for the Euro's build. It's off the table now. It's now soccers turn for stadium upgrades and academies.

Your own Club Rovers got a stadium funded by South Dublin Co Council. Bohemians got big funding for the redeveloped Dalymount though the large scale infastructure. Other Clubs have crap facilities because they have not done enough to get funding. Dundalk had a half arse design that didn't meet the requirements. 

My what? I think you dialled the wrong number there.

But are we really going to go over the shitshow that was the GAA's objection to Tallaght?

But my point was quite simple. Tapping €50m from the sports capital budget for a controversial white elephant in Belfast when that money has been promised to much more needed projects will be a tough sell, especially with an FG minister for sport.

If Dublin stumps up it will be the peace and love fund, and even then politically it will be sparky. It isn't exactly a cross community project.

[trileacman]

Ulster Council quoted on front page of the Irish News saying there are no plans to downsize the stadium. 
So does that fire it back into Stormont, where they're incapable of making a big decision.
They'll still be waffling about it in five years time if this is the strategy.

I imagine the Brits 50 million is tied to the current plans too. So if the stadium plans change I think they're bound to row back on their commitment.

[Milltown Row2]

This is bigger news on local news than people getting burnt out of their houses.. Tells ya all ya need to know about this shithole

[Baile Brigín 2]

Build whatever can with the money available and get feckin on with it.

If only they had heeded that advice a decade or more ago... 

If only the IFA had a little ambition and realised that when they built their stadium that it wouldn't even fit for purpose for any potential tournament, but hey ho.

Let's hope the GAA are a little more ambitious even if it has taken this shambles to get there.

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

[Evil Genius]

As if you care about the A5.

It was just one example, chosen because if you listen to Burns, it has a special place in the hearts of Gaels (though how he was going to stop non-Gaels using it beats me. Tolls?).

But then I suppose in your world using the money for anything rather than Casement would be great news.

Then you suppose wrong*.

I have been quite clear: the GAA deserves a new stadium in Belfast, using its £62.5m share of the Maze money. And if they're prepared to top that up with £15m of their own money, good for them. Ditto any money they can get from Dublin.

But the problem is, they fecked about looking to build a vanity project which even many GAA supporters accepted was overblown and unnecessary. Then, when the result of their own incompetence meant they suffered inflationary construction costs, instead of admitting responsibility and cutting their cloth accordingly, they blamed everyone else and then expected the Brits to bale them out.

Worse, when an extra £50m was found for them even in these straitened times, they complained that this wasn't enough. Which conveniently ignores two things. First, when the Maze money was to be divided equally between Soccer and GAA, why don't the IFA qualify for an equal payout now, too? And second, from their original £62.5m Maze payout, the IFA decided to spend £26m on Windsor, and £36.5m on regional stadia afterwards. Yet this latter sum has been held up by various Ministers on the basis that Casement needed to be sorted first i.e. Soccer effectively punished for the GAA's incompetence.

Worse still, when Burns complains that the GAA's original £62m has been eroded by inflation, would he accept that the IFA's £36.5m has been similarly eroded, through no fault of their own, and so deserves a cut of whatever extra may be available?

All of which merely argues for equality of treatment between the two codes, which was supposed to be the principle behind such funding all along. And just so you cannot twist it further, that means if Soccer receives X, then the GAA deserves X, too.


* - Btw it might be an idea to read what I actually post to ascertain what I think, rather than just projecting your own prejudices onto me.

Your point on schools and hospitals is old emotive nonsense.

Does that imply you don't care for such matters then, if someone who does is "emotive" or talking "nonsense"?

Schools and hospitals can put business cases to the Executive if they need resources for capital projects like everyone else.

There is a finite pot of money, meaning the more money goes to (the outrageous overspend on) one project, the less is available for other (more deserving) projects.

But you probably knew that, even if you don't care to acknowledge it.

[SaffronSports]

Jarlath Burns, man of words and no action. No doubt he'll give a rousing speech about Casement and do f**k all as usual.

[Evil Genius]

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

Correction: the GAA originally decided they were going to build a 38k capacity stadium, which was a key reason it got refused Planning Permission (H&S, esp inadequate emergency evacuation time). And even then the revised 34k only got passed because the Minister at the time later bulldozed it through.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

Correction: the GAA originally decided they were going to build a 38k capacity stadium, which was a key reason it got refused Planning Permission (H&S, esp inadequate emergency evacuation time). And even then the revised 34k only got passed because the Minister at the time later bulldozed it through.

The 38k stadium was passed (bulldozed through) by Mark H Durkan before the decision was ruled unlawful by the high court.

[NAG1]

Build whatever can with the money available and get feckin on with it.

If only they had heeded that advice a decade or more ago... 

If only the IFA had a little ambition and realised that when they built their stadium that it wouldn't even fit for purpose for any potential tournament, but hey ho.

Let's hope the GAA are a little more ambitious even if it has taken this shambles to get there.

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

Thanks for the advice.

But personally I hope they build something that will not only benefit the GAA but the city and region as a whole. I'm not looking to build with all due respect another Athletic Grounds.

Build something that could help to regenerate an area which has been neglected for decades.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Build whatever can with the money available and get feckin on with it.

If only they had heeded that advice a decade or more ago... 

If only the IFA had a little ambition and realised that when they built their stadium that it wouldn't even fit for purpose for any potential tournament, but hey ho.

Let's hope the GAA are a little more ambitious even if it has taken this shambles to get there.

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

Thanks for the advice.

But personally I hope they build something that will not only benefit the GAA but the city and region as a whole. I'm not looking to build with all due respect another Athletic Grounds.

Build something that could help to regenerate an area which has been neglected for decades.

1. Has it? People from north Belfast would tell you that "Gerry's West" gets everything. From state of the art leisure centres to upgraded public transport systems. Is Andersonstown, in particular, in critical need of regeneration?
2. Is a GAA stadium a good way of regenerating an area?

[Baile Brigín 2]

Build whatever can with the money available and get feckin on with it.

If only they had heeded that advice a decade or more ago... 

If only the IFA had a little ambition and realised that when they built their stadium that it wouldn't even fit for purpose for any potential tournament, but hey ho.

Let's hope the GAA are a little more ambitious even if it has taken this shambles to get there.

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

Thanks for the advice.

But personally I hope they build something that will not only benefit the GAA but the city and region as a whole. I'm not looking to build with all due respect another Athletic Grounds.

Build something that could help to regenerate an area which has been neglected for decades.

My point remains. Casement was perfectly fine until the Maze grant was dangled and then the giddiness began.

I'm not all that convinced that a 34k stadium in a suburban setting will boost Belfast, but yes, it would be nice. But the GAA can't afford it and definitely don't look like they can locally manage the project.

Then we have to ask who pays for it's upkeep as it will almost certainly run at a loss

You say lack of ambition. I say reality bites.

[LC]

Build whatever can with the money available and get feckin on with it.

If only they had heeded that advice a decade or more ago... 

If only the IFA had a little ambition and realised that when they built their stadium that it wouldn't even fit for purpose for any potential tournament, but hey ho.

Let's hope the GAA are a little more ambitious even if it has taken this shambles to get there.

'Ambition' is the problem. The IFA and IRFU built perfectly adequate stadia within the budget allocated. No fuss, no seethe. The GAA decided they were going to build a top spec 34k facility they didn't need *because* they got that grant, then made absolute shite of it.

That's before we get to the cost of maintaining a 34k stadium that might be full once a year.

Scale it down, build the best they can with the money available.

Thanks for the advice.

But personally I hope they build something that will not only benefit the GAA but the city and region as a whole. I'm not looking to build with all due respect another Athletic Grounds.

Build something that could help to regenerate an area which has been neglected for decades.

1. Has it? People from north Belfast would tell you that "Gerry's West" gets everything. From state of the art leisure centres to upgraded public transport systems. Is Andersonstown, in particular, in critical need of regeneration?
2. Is a GAA stadium a good way of regenerating an area?

Plenty of regeneration going on in W.Belfast as it is with all the social (free housing) being built for the locals.  Rest of us have to go out and work, get a mortgage etc if we want a house.  Similar to the housing in W.Belast it will be van loads of men coming down the M1 and M2 each day who will build Casement when it starts............eventually.

[illdecide]

First of all for the 1000th time it can't be f**king built somewhere else...It's Casement or nowt.
Maybe VAT on ticket sales wasn't mentioned enough so maybe throw it in another few times there.
It's not being scaled back so please stop saying built it with the money you have and cut your cloth...They're going all out for the 34k stadium.
As for planning...once you have full planning in place you can construct a wall as part of the project and come back in 10 years and finish it if you feel like it unless there is a special planning requirement placed as part of the approval that the works must be complete in a certain time frame, this is usually in place if the Construction works is having a major impact on others around or major infrastructure etc.
It is us v them whether you like or not and them are more bitter and twisted than us, them hate us and don't want us to have anything and we should just crawl back under the rock and be quiet.
If only i'd have won the Euro millions on Tue nite I could have funded the rest of it myself...

[Hereiam]

First of all for the 1000th time it can't be f**king built somewhere else...It's Casement or nowt.
Maybe VAT on ticket sales wasn't mentioned enough so maybe throw it in another few times there.
It's not being scaled back so please stop saying built it with the money you have and cut your cloth...They're going all out for the 34k stadium.
As for planning...once you have full planning in place you can construct a wall as part of the project and come back in 10 years and finish it if you feel like it unless there is a special planning requirement placed as part of the approval that the works must be complete in a certain time frame, this is usually in place if the Construction works is having a major impact on others around or major infrastructure etc.
It is us v them whether you like or not and them are more bitter and twisted than us, them hate us and don't want us to have anything and we should just crawl back under the rock and be quiet.
If only i'd have won the Euro millions on Tue nite I could have funded the rest of it myself...

Completely agree, get it built if GAA members were asked to contribute £1 each to make up the short fall I'm sure they would do it in a heart beat. The GAA community in the north need this stadium and they needed it yesterday.

[Stickittotheman]

As if you care about the A5.

It was just one example, chosen because if you listen to Burns, it has a special place in the hearts of Gaels (though how he was going to stop non-Gaels using it beats me. Tolls?).

But then I suppose in your world using the money for anything rather than Casement would be great news.

Then you suppose wrong*.

I have been quite clear: the GAA deserves a new stadium in Belfast, using its £62.5m share of the Maze money. And if they're prepared to top that up with £15m of their own money, good for them. Ditto any money they can get from Dublin.

But the problem is, they fecked about looking to build a vanity project which even many GAA supporters accepted was overblown and unnecessary. Then, when the result of their own incompetence meant they suffered inflationary construction costs, instead of admitting responsibility and cutting their cloth accordingly, they blamed everyone else and then expected the Brits to bale them out.

Worse, when an extra £50m was found for them even in these straitened times, they complained that this wasn't enough. Which conveniently ignores two things. First, when the Maze money was to be divided equally between Soccer and GAA, why don't the IFA qualify for an equal payout now, too? And second, from their original £62.5m Maze payout, the IFA decided to spend £26m on Windsor, and £36.5m on regional stadia afterwards. Yet this latter sum has been held up by various Ministers on the basis that Casement needed to be sorted first i.e. Soccer effectively punished for the GAA's incompetence.

Worse still, when Burns complains that the GAA's original £62m has been eroded by inflation, would he accept that the IFA's £36.5m has been similarly eroded, through no fault of their own, and so deserves a cut of whatever extra may be available?

All of which merely argues for equality of treatment between the two codes, which was supposed to be the principle behind such funding all along. And just so you cannot twist it further, that means if Soccer receives X, then the GAA deserves X, too.


* - Btw it might be an idea to read what I actually post to ascertain what I think, rather than just projecting your own prejudices onto me.

Your point on schools and hospitals is old emotive nonsense.

Does that imply you don't care for such matters then, if someone who does is "emotive" or talking "nonsense"?

Schools and hospitals can put business cases to the Executive if they need resources for capital projects like everyone else.

There is a finite pot of money, meaning the more money goes to (the outrageous overspend on) one project, the less is available for other (more deserving) projects.

But you probably knew that, even if you don't care to acknowledge it.

Do you understand how inflation works? Why would the IFA, who received what they required at the time be subject to an inflationary increase now. An inflationary increase means the equivalent of what £60 million was at the time the money was allocated. It's like being in work and receiving £1100 a month in 2012. Then in 2025 you start work again after being inactive for a decade. You get paid £1100 a month.

Yeah so as I thought you were just using the A5 as a political football.

Of course I care about schools and hospitals. Who doesn't? But everytime something is built that benefits the Nationalist community we get the same emotive language about money for the NHS. It's tiresome. £60 million for an Ice rink in a Unionist area, no problem. £50 million for a GAA stadium in a Nationalist area- oh God won't someone think of the children!!

Finite money or not if capital projects need built then the business case will be brought forward by whoever requires that funding.