Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[Milltown Row2]

Hopefully they include the ref's this time in their assessment of how the rules are viewed, they didn't when setting them up, wouldn't surprise me if they didn't include them again though

[David McKeown]

I am softening my views on the new rules more so when I'm watching on TV rather than at the games but I still would vote against them. I think there's too many negatives to them. For example I think there's ability to gain an easy two points because of contact when you land after catching a mark on your own 45 devalues a well worked 3 point goal.

I also think there's a lot of confirmation bias to them. We've had some very good games this year which were good games because you had two high quality evenly matched teams going at it. Those who favour the rules seem to put this down to being because of the rules exclusively ignoring that we had equally good if not better games last year. The Connacht final being a prime example. Strangely though when we have bad games those same people aren't suggesting they were bad because of the rules exclusively.

The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win and the rules shouldn't be in place to impact on that. These rules seemed to be tailored towards making the game more of a lottery and therefore more exciting. I'm not convinced that's should be the purpose of the rules.

My final concern remains that we haven't been able to implement the rules in isolation and there seems to be no consensus on nearly every new rule. So we may be in a scenario come the end of the year whereby we don't implement one or two of the rules but as a result we end up with unintended consequences in respect of the other rules which we are then stuck with. For example we remove the two point rule and we see far more tactical fouling as MR2 has alluded to. Or as we saw during the league going 4 v 3 resulting in defences not being down 2 players on their own free kicks.

I know I may be in the minority on this and it certainly wouldn't be the first time but still on balance I don't like the new rules and don't feel that overall they have improved or enhanced the game.

[tiempo]

The new rules have obliterated the mass defence tactic which was a blight on the game, no issue at all teams wanting to limit opposition scores, but celebrity coaches writing articles that it was their ambition to coach a game that ended 0-0 was the direction of travel

In 2019 there was a Donegal senior league game ended 3-2 and an U14 Ulster colleges game that ended 2-1

Calling it rules enhancement from the outset was an inverted pyramid of piffle, but I think the game has been enhanced with not much tweaking left to do

[thewobbler]

The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win

David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.

But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.

Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.

[JoG2]

* kickouts: I'd change to the small arc. Still a risk to go short with no keeper involvement (the long kick just comes down to too much luck for me)

* 2 points from a free, scrap it, especially if a ball has been moved in 50m and can be brought out.

* handing the ball back. Just set on the ground would do, as long as the player holding it doesn't act the bollocks, no?

Keep the rest. Football as a spectacle now is day and night. It's that exciting atm, as a spectator you want another round of games this week, not a two week break

The thought of going back to mass defences / crab football would give you the jitters.

[EoinW]

The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win

David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.

But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.

Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.

The highlighted statement by David is exactly how every sporting purist should feel.  I consider that paragraph of his excellent assessment to be the best.  Which just means I agree with it because I'm also a sport purist.

What's the purpose of any sport competition?  I'd say it is to determine the best team.  21st century fans believe it is to be entertained.

A point was made on another post about how great it is that 8 point leads are no longer safe.  A team can no longer comfortably protect a lead the final 10 minutes of a game.  Is that fair that a team earns a victory by being the better team over 60 minutes then has it stolen away at the end?

I believe a competition should be fair and part of that fairness is that the best team wins.  Otherwise you are cheating the athletes.  They play Gaelic football at the county level because they want to be the best and they want their county to be champion.  They don't want to win that honour in a lottery, they want to earn it!  They could go shoot craps if they just wanted something based on luck.

For those who wish to be entertained: there are millions of ways to be entertained in your life.  It isn't essential for sport to serve that purpose.

In my lifetime, I've seen every sport I cared about being hijacked by people who want to be entertained.  Because it's all about money and because the western mentality is all about "growing things" governing bodies sell out as they see the potential of making more money by doing so.  The GAA is also guilty of this.

Thus tradition gets tossed out the window.

Seriously, why can't you people leave sports as they were intended to be - a fair competition to determine who is the best - and go get your entertainment elsewhere?  The thing is, sports competitions can be fair and entertaining.  It doesn't need to be one or the other. 

The real fans understand and appreciate this.  The ones looking to sit in front of their tv to kill 2 hours don't get it.

[Rossfan]

Why can't the best team win with the enhanced rules?
Who wants to go back to the pre 2025 chess like game?

[thewobbler]

Frankly EoinW if you were any more over the place with that response, you could play in Cavan's back line.

You present a scenario in which a team incapable of protecting their lead, is still the better team, and deserves their victory. And rather than concentrate on that team's inability to defend and/or counter attack, you blame the rule book.

Why play for 70 mins ffs. Just have 5 minute games. Or maybe neutral judges who can award additional points for "being better".

——

As for "growing things", I just don't think you understand how perilous a state football had entered.

The game wasn't just stagnating. It was dwindling.

The single most important thing a sport has to do to maintain its stature is to always have a line of replacements for those about to retire. And I don't mean just players: players, officials, administrators, supporters, sponsors.

You talk about obsession with growth, and you mentioned it multiple times before.

The game was retracting, and only surviving because of tribal loyalties. But look across attendances for some of the traditionally well supported counties like Mayo, Tyrone, Down, Kildare over the past couple of years and there's an obvious pattern that tribal loyalty was wearing thin.

Surely you can see this? Surely you can accept this. It's not about growth. Not about entertainment. Those are byproducts of a sport that people want to be involved in.

Or would you have preferred to sit in the dark and allow the sport to die?

[The Trap]

On one side you have David mckeown and Eoinw making their points in a balanced way but the likes of the wobbler, rossfan and truthsayer just want to tell people how they should feel.

I don't like being told how to feel. I think a lot of the issues you have brought up in your last post Wobbler have very little to do with the way the game is played and more to to with the way the GAA is run.

People are sick of everything being money orientated. Every decision the GAA makes is with money as the primary focus. I grew up listening to the jibes about the Grab All Association and never paid much attention but my God it is so true nowadays.

People harp on about having our game back. No we haven't. We have a totally new game and a sport primarily for the few who make it to county level. Even at u17 and u20 there are B and C competitions meaning seasons drag on and lads play less and less club.

If you want to go back to the good old days then play knock out championships like in the 90s, let county players have lives and play club football. Let club football prosper again. Let volunteers on the ground see the fruits of their labour with the players they produce playing with the club.

There may be a short term increase in entertainment for some people but these new rules won't fix the problems that exist in football in the long term.

[trueblue1234]

If you take entertainment out of sport, the sport won't last. Simple as that.
And that's without going into the issue following the GAA would have regardless of the new rules. You already have a skewed structure and completely unfair disparity of resources (both population and financial). So if you're looking at the GAA with a purist viewpoint, the issues of the new rules are well down the list of issues. And it is tradition that is keeping some of that in place.
Also I think you are confusing fairness. The fairness is in the fact both teams have fair opportunity to win the game playing by the same rules for the entirety of the game. If one decides to go negative for 10 mins and manages to screw up an 8 point lead. Thats on them. They had a fair platform to play from and can have no excuses.

[Rossfan]

I asked 2 questions, then some lad said that was "telling people how to feel".
Some might like the pre 2025 chessball, some might want to go back to the past but most want a forward looking organisation promoting two exciting sports.

I'm one of that majority and make no apologies for it.

[thewobbler]

On one side you have David mckeown and Eoinw making their points in a balanced way but the likes of the wobbler, rossfan and truthsayer just want to tell people how they should feel.

I don't like being told how to feel. I think a lot of the issues you have brought up in your last post Wobbler have very little to do with the way the game is played and more to to with the way the GAA is run.

People are sick of everything being money orientated. Every decision the GAA makes is with money as the primary focus. I grew up listening to the jibes about the Grab All Association and never paid much attention but my God it is so true nowadays.

People harp on about having our game back. No we haven't. We have a totally new game and a sport primarily for the few who make it to county level. Even at u17 and u20 there are B and C competitions meaning seasons drag on and lads play less and less club.

If you want to go back to the good old days then play knock out championships like in the 90s, let county players have lives and play club football. Let club football prosper again. Let volunteers on the ground see the fruits of their labour with the players they produce playing with the club.

There may be a short term increase in entertainment for some people but these new rules won't fix the problems that exist in football in the long term.

It seems you could find a place in that Cavan back line too.

Within two paragraphs you condemn the GAA for now having money as its primary focus, then decry the formation of B and C competitions at u17 and u20 level.

Can I tell you something? Competitive underage squads cost county boards a fortune to run. Elongated seasons at u17 and u20 level cost county boards two fortunes to run, and with almost zero kickback from sponsors and ticket sales should they go all the way in the lower tier competitions.

(By the way I'd get rid of both backdoor competitions, there's no need)

But to be honest, this "throw enough shit and see what sticks" approach to condemning the GAA is so frustrating to read. It's not balanced. It's not fair.

And one thing I can tell you with all sincerity is I've never confused the rules of the game with the structures of the association.

I'm just glad that the latter has recognised that if it hadn't taken control of the former, it was going to be the end of the road for both.

[johnnycool]

The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win

David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.

But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.

Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.

The highlighted statement by David is exactly how every sporting purist should feel.  I consider that paragraph of his excellent assessment to be the best.  Which just means I agree with it because I'm also a sport purist.

What's the purpose of any sport competition?  I'd say it is to determine the best team.  21st century fans believe it is to be entertained.

A point was made on another post about how great it is that 8 point leads are no longer safe.  A team can no longer comfortably protect a lead the final 10 minutes of a game. Is that fair that a team earns a victory by being the better team over 60 minutes then has it stolen away at the end?

I believe a competition should be fair and part of that fairness is that the best team wins.  Otherwise you are cheating the athletes.  They play Gaelic football at the county level because they want to be the best and they want their county to be champion.  They don't want to win that honour in a lottery, they want to earn it!  They could go shoot craps if they just wanted something based on luck.

For those who wish to be entertained: there are millions of ways to be entertained in your life.  It isn't essential for sport to serve that purpose.

In my lifetime, I've seen every sport I cared about being hijacked by people who want to be entertained.  Because it's all about money and because the western mentality is all about "growing things" governing bodies sell out as they see the potential of making more money by doing so.  The GAA is also guilty of this.

Thus tradition gets tossed out the window.

Seriously, why can't you people leave sports as they were intended to be - a fair competition to determine who is the best - and go get your entertainment elsewhere?  The thing is, sports competitions can be fair and entertaining.  It doesn't need to be one or the other. 

The real fans understand and appreciate this.  The ones looking to sit in front of their tv to kill 2 hours don't get it.

I'm not sure about the point you think you are making, but if the game is 70 minutes long then you need to be the better team over the entire 70 minutes, not just the 60 and then park the bus.

[The Trap]

I'm pleased we can agree on some things Wobbler 😊.

Regarding the new rules here is my personal take on the games at the weekend.

Cork v Kerry poor game ruined by the poor application of some of the rules.

Tyrone v Mayo poor game because Tyrone were so flat and even the rules couldn't make this one exciting.

Derry v Galway excellent game. Derry brought great intensity and the ref let both teams at it and there was loads of contact that has been missing from many games. No doubt the rules added to this game and it would be hard to argue against anything if all games were like this. This was 2 division one teams going head to head in an almost knock out game which added to it.

Dublin v Armagh was just OK. Rules didn't add to this one with 3 v 3 infractions and too stop start. Plus a few forced 2 point efforts that didn't look good. Now the Rian ONeill point was class and maybe showed that 2 pointers outside 45 could be better

Saw highlights of Monaghan v Clare and it was a real 2 point fayre with a gale behind you and that's not really exciting.

Down v Louth highlights looked really good but didn't see full game.

So just like every other year there is a mixed bag.

[David McKeown]

The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win

David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.

But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.

Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.

I don't take that as an insult nor do I think it's unfair. I've said on here before that two of my favourite experiences were the Dublin v Donegal All Ireland (semi or final) in McGuinness first run and getting to watch the Dublin v Kerry All Ireland final (that Cluxton won at the death with the huge free) in the company of an All Ireland winning coach/manager.

So I do enjoy the tactical battles probably more than most.

I blame it on growing up watching Serie A and NFL on channel 4.

That said I gain the most enjoyment when deserving teams win by being better and not when they geta lucky bounce or referring decision. I like to see skill rewarded and genuine competition rather than the artificial harmonising these rules lead too. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There's no right way to enjoy sport. I know I'm far from alone in my views. I'm probably in the minority but if I then it's probably a sizeable minority.

Also I'm just back from Europes second largest board game conference so there's obviously some merit to your point.