Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[God14]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

Great post. I cringed at McGeehan interview on BBC. The project would benefit from a change of leadership at this junction

[quit yo jibbajabba]

What was mcgeehan spouting this time

[illdecide]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

Point 2 was my biggest disappointment and 100% correct. Horgan Lynch (Cork and Dublin) have the most experience in Ireland on stadia design and why they couldn't have used someone there as a spokesperson and advice. Mr mcgeehan had no experience or expertise in this field prior to Casement, I don't get it.

[BigGreenField]

It's a lot to do with it being the GAA's fault as well though.
If Dundonald Ice Bowl made a cnut of the project and came back asking for £180m, you would be saying they should take a walk. We all know that.

While I agree a small part of me would look forward to seeing how a 180 million ice bowl would turn out, would there still be a wrestling match for the beginner penguins?

[BigGreenField]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

Point 2 was my biggest disappointment and 100% correct. Horgan Lynch (Cork and Dublin) have the most experience in Ireland on stadia design and why they couldn't have used someone there as a spokesperson and advice. Mr mcgeehan had no experience or expertise in this field prior to Casement, I don't get it.

When Pairc Ui Chaoimh was made a mess of with I think a 40% over spend the Gaa promised to look hard etc but appears not have done this , while each county is an
Island etc hard to understand how any redevelopment above 5m isn't run from the centre. Mind you we are crap at delivering any type of infrastructure so maybe that wouldn't help.

[Wildweasel74]

The fire issue was always there. Forseen, and nothing was done about it from day 1, Objections  were always coming, nobody wants a house in shadow. End of day, a no.of houses needed bought, even if overprice. And it still be 100million cheaper than it is now.There was none of the trustees with construction background on major projects, and this was needed, from a knowledge perspective.

[illdecide]

The biggest issue with the design was the stadium could not be evacuated in 6 mins safely as there was insufficient room for the patrons. This time is in the red guide for stadia safety and applies to all stadiums, this is modelled and I've seen how it backs up and crushing develops. The M1 to the rear stopped the stadia having free flowing egress.

[Wildweasel74]

6 mins, that depend on stadium size? U wouldn't get out of the Hill in 6 mins foreby Croke Park.

[LC]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

What is the professional background of those supposedly steering the ship and making the big calls.  In the private sector (real world) such people as a minimum would need some sort of demonstratable experience in the delivery of multi-million £ capital projects and the ability to manage / co-ordinate the relevant stakeholders.

I might be wrong but I think the CVs of the relevant parties would be lacking in this department but unfortunately in such situations you would never get anybody to put their hand up and say they are out of their depth.

[Milltown Row2]

The biggest issue with the design was the stadium could not be evacuated in 6 mins safely as there was insufficient room for the patrons. This time is in the red guide for stadia safety and applies to all stadiums, this is modelled and I've seen how it backs up and crushing develops. The M1 to the rear stopped the stadia having free flowing egress.

There is basically a street and waste ground before the motorway at the rear of Casement.

Looking at images of Fulham football pitch it's side is on to the river a lot closer than Casements to motorway

[93-DY-SAM]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

Great post. I cringed at McGeehan interview on BBC. The project would benefit from a change of leadership at this junction

I have to agree. This whole saga has been mismanaged from day dot. It needs fresh heads at this stage.

[twohands!!!]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

Point 2 was my biggest disappointment and 100% correct. Horgan Lynch (Cork and Dublin) have the most experience in Ireland on stadia design and why they couldn't have used someone there as a spokesperson and advice. Mr mcgeehan had no experience or expertise in this field prior to Casement, I don't get it.

When Pairc Ui Chaoimh was made a mess of with I think a 40% over spend the Gaa promised to look hard etc but appears not have done this , while each county is an
Island etc hard to understand how any redevelopment above 5m isn't run from the centre. Mind you we are crap at delivering any type of infrastructure so maybe that wouldn't help.

I'd imagine a large part of it is that the provincial councils and counties have a lot of control over their r "their" money. Basically Croke Park can advise but provincial councils and county boards can pretty much just ignore any advice given. None of the county boards/provincial councils have any interest in putting any controls in place that would limit their power by giving up any control to Croke Park.

Anecdotally I have heard that Croke Park warned Cork County Board a number of times about PuC but individuals in Cork GAA were absolutely convinced they knew better. From what I heard, there were folk in the finance department in Croke Park who were blue in the face warning Cork GAA that there were being massively deluded in terms of what sort of money the stadium was likely to earn. There was a lot of bad feeling when Croke Park had to take over the running of Pairc Ui Chaoimh. I do wonder if the same initial stuff is playing out with Casement currently.

In the longer-term I wonder if this does turn out to be a complete clusterfuck in terms of torpedoing Ulster GAA's finances for a few decades if it might prove some impetus towards the scrapping of the provincial councils. A number of people who work in Croke Park for the GAA have told me over the years that the provinvial councils are a disaster in terms of administrating things efficiently behind the scenes. There is serious duplication of work between the four councils and a world of wasted time,effort and money. If the Ulster Council make a massive balls of this (as seems the likeliest outcome by far) it might give Croke Park the power to reduce the power of the provincial councils massively or even get rid of them. An absolute sliver of a silver lining in a very very dark massive cloud.

[johnnycool]

Do you know what you should do EG...close your eyes and visualise this stadium in Dundonald and used for something else other than GAA and see if it still tastes as bitter.

Dundonald will be getting it's very own GAA pitch soon enough. 

Ballybeen Pearces vrs Tullycarnet Gaels will be a humdinger in 2030.

[johnnycool]

The GAA put the cart before the horse massively.
1. They arrogantly thought the residents would be swept aside and Sinn Fein would fix any problems.
2. They were out of their depth professionally and had no answer when the health and safety issues were raised.
3. They don't seem to understand political leverage.  Only this week they are talking big about "seeing the colour" of the British governments money.  In what world will an untrustworthy British government who have just wheeled out a crushing Budget, do any favours or be pressured by the GAA?

It's just been amateur hour from the start unfortunately.  It needs taken out of the hands of Ulster GAA, get on with it by cutting the cloth according to whatever money is in the kitty, and give it back to Antrim GAA.

What is the professional background of those supposedly steering the ship and making the big calls.  In the private sector (real world) such people as a minimum would need some sort of demonstratable experience in the delivery of multi-million £ capital projects and the ability to manage / co-ordinate the relevant stakeholders.

I might be wrong but I think the CVs of the relevant parties would be lacking in this department but unfortunately in such situations you would never get anybody to put their hand up and say they are out of their depth.

Initially Peter Quinn was heavily involved in the background in all of this if you remember the debacle with the then Antrim chairman cutting off the electricity to the Casement Social Club in an attempt to force them out.

Ryan Feeney was the main frontman for Ulster GAA when this thing started to hit the fan due to the crowd safety issue that was attempted to be overlooked by some and thank god the lad responsible stood his ground and blew the whistle..

Ulster GAA and SF have made a shíte of this from the get go and while I do think Burns is entirely right to bring up the decades of underfunding of the GAA at local and regional government level they need a more pragmatic approach to this and build the thing in phases, much like how Croke Park was re-developed.

Get it functional first and build from there.

[illdecide]

6 mins, that depend on stadium size? U wouldn't get out of the Hill in 6 mins foreby Croke Park.

No, all stadiums and venues must evacuate within 6 mins in an emergency. Doesn't matter if the ground hold 5000 or 100,000. I actually just looked it up and i was wrong (apologies) the actual figure is less than 8 mins. The "Red Guide" states you must evacuate in an emergency in less than 8 mins. I used to know all these stats but having not done it in over a decade it's all a bit rusty, there is great software that shows you how crowds react in an emergency and when they get to a pinch point that restricts the flow you can see it all backing up.