Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[Keyser soze]

Jesus is there anything wrong with a bit of wrestling pre throw up? Fire the ball in and let them at it, love to see it

If wrestlings ure thing 🤷

Rock, paper, scissors would be the best way to go, save having to watch them big hallions physically competing for the ball.

PS this is sarcasm readers.

[GTP]

1. one year to trial these rules initially and also allowing tweaks/adjustments
    2025 will be an ongoing experiment for county teams and supporters. And who decides if a rule isn't working as
    planned to make these changes (or will admit they aren't working).
2. the reality is that the powers that be know that the game is in trouble
    This is because they keep telling us how terrible football is a marketing ploy which I cannot fathom.
3. they are willing to give counties control over which of these rules to bring in at underage
    Making the men's game fundamentally different from the female game doesn't sit well with me. Allowing 32 counties
    the chance to decide the rules for underage football doesn't seem a great idea either. The difference in
    age grades across counties shows it is unlikely everyone will be of the same opinion as to what does and does not
    apply.

Twohands you are probably correct as it does look like there is no stopping the enhancements, but I am not convinced by them or by the evidence of the matches played over the weekend.
Above all with the new scoring I will be looking forward to attending matches with no scoreboard and no umpires then going home to find the result on teletext the internet.

[johnnycool]

The 3v3 rule needs to be implemented no matter what.

as for club games there's plenty of supporters and along both dugouts to help the referee keep check on it.

Also, refereeing the existing rules on steps really should be a given, especially in the tackle.
If the tackle is a fine tackle then blow for overcarrying, if the tackle is a foul then blow for the foul.
It won't take long for the coaches and stats men (and women) to adapt once that is refereed correctly (and in hurling)


The goal keeper not able to take a pass in his own half (other than inside the large rectangle), but can in the oppositions half is a bit meh for me, not sure what that brings TBH.

The 50 metre rule for not moving away from the foul and not "presenting the ball" is harsh but once again teams will adapt and may speed the game up.

Didn't see much of the tap and go to pass judgement on that.

[Spiderlegs]

The talk of football being poor has been on the go for quite some time but has really ramped up the last 3 or 4 years in particular. For what it's worth, I didn't see it that way, I'm all for teams innovating, playing the game how they see fit, I enjoyed the tactical intricacies of it all compared to 70s and 80s hoofball.

Personally, I would have left the game alone and would have expected it to evolve again naturally over time.
But I appreciate that this talk of football being poor will continue unless the game changes. And so I approach what the FRC are doing with an open mind.

The 2 Friday games in Croke Park were just ok, but I must admit I enjoyed the Saturday games, particularly the final. What I'm intrigued about is how the coaches in our game innovate and try to find ways to take advantage. These rules allow for a lot of flexibility in playing styles...not just the one playing style that almost every team has adopted in recent years of funnelling everyone back.

Teams will have to decide if they employ a stand-in goalkeeper and play it safe or take the risk of crossing over the half way line to create a +1. I like that there are options.

All rules are easy enough to police at club level with the exception of the 3v3.
The way I see the 3v3 working is it will eventually become self policed. To begin with, the referee will only be able to call it if and when he spots it and teams will decide whether they take the chance with it or not. If they get caught deliberately doing it, the punishment has already been set as a 20m free kick in front of goals, which on occasion could move play from one end of the pitch to the other. It is a severe punishment and a big risk to take and is designed specifically to dissuade deliberate breaking of the 3v3 structure. If a team gets stung with it a few times they will then police this rule themselves until eventually it becomes in-built.

I watch a lot of Australian football...the 50m penalty is taken from it. It is a rare enough occurrence to see it happen in the AFL because the players just instinctively give the ball back to the opponent or get out of the way. Again it will require a cultural change and we'll see a lot of it in our game until eventually the mindset changes. Referees need to allow a little bit of leeway on this one for a while.

I see a concern there somewhere that you can't have different sets of rules for gaelic football depending on whether it's county, club or underage etc.
The reality is that you absolutely can, the core rules and playing of the game remain the same but there can be small differences in rulesets for example the lifting of the ball off the ground in ladies football, or in go games sometimes the scoring can be points only, or 2 points for over the bar and 1 for under the bar.
Even in American football, there a some rule differences between College Football versus the NFL.
This is not an unheard of concept.

In summary I'm happy to give these rules a chance for the 2025 season and I hope all of them get passed in special congress. I have surprised myself in thinking this way.

[Taylor]

The 3v3 rule needs to be implemented no matter what.

as for club games there's plenty of supporters and along both dugouts to help the referee keep check on it.

Also, refereeing the existing rules on steps really should be a given, especially in the tackle.
If the tackle is a fine tackle then blow for overcarrying, if the tackle is a foul then blow for the foul.
It won't take long for the coaches and stats men (and women) to adapt once that is refereed correctly (and in hurling)


The goal keeper not able to take a pass in his own half (other than inside the large rectangle), but can in the oppositions half is a bit meh for me, not sure what that brings TBH.

The 50 metre rule for not moving away from the foul and not "presenting the ball" is harsh but once again teams will adapt and may speed the game up.

Didn't see much of the tap and go to pass judgement on that.

I think the bold one is absolutely key to the changes.

If not you will have 4 playing keep ball versus 3 in their own half

[johnnycool]

The 3v3 rule needs to be implemented no matter what.

as for club games there's plenty of supporters and along both dugouts to help the referee keep check on it.

Also, refereeing the existing rules on steps really should be a given, especially in the tackle.
If the tackle is a fine tackle then blow for overcarrying, if the tackle is a foul then blow for the foul.
It won't take long for the coaches and stats men (and women) to adapt once that is refereed correctly (and in hurling)


The goal keeper not able to take a pass in his own half (other than inside the large rectangle), but can in the oppositions half is a bit meh for me, not sure what that brings TBH.

The 50 metre rule for not moving away from the foul and not "presenting the ball" is harsh but once again teams will adapt and may speed the game up.

Didn't see much of the tap and go to pass judgement on that.

I think the bold one is absolutely key to the changes.

If not you will have 4 playing keep ball versus 3 in their own half

The keeper not allowed to take a pass inside their own half, but why allow them to take a pass inside the opposition half? That's the bit I'm meh about.

[Spiderlegs]

The keeper not allowed to take a pass inside their own half, but why allow them to take a pass inside the opposition half? That's the bit I'm meh about.

In the explanatory videos, allowing the goalkeeper to join in beyond the half way line is to not entirely do away with modern innovations.

But beyond that, think of what it might mean for the game in general or specific patterns of play.

- Does a team opt for a stand-in goalkeeper or a roaming goalkeeper? Various elements of risk, reward, safety etc involved here.
- If a goalkeeper roams, then how how the defensive team go about countering him as a extra player, do they then use their own goalkeeper to even the numbers
- If a turnover happens and the goalkeeper is across the halfway line, the 3v3 structure means he could get caught out very easy. Again teams will have to weigh this up.

Are all these variables and risk/reward scenarios not what we're after??

[The Trap]

I like your posts Spiderlegs and can understand you are trying to be positive which is fair enough.
In those scenarios though there is no way a team is going to push out their keeper to mark a man and leave the goal empty while a team is in their half. Especially with a goal worth 4. It will be a zonal defence much like before.
And with a keeper up the field the attacking team is going to be very cautious on the ball so they don't get turned over. And who wants to see lots of goals into an empty net? When those have happened before the keepers have been vilified.
So in the interest of fairness I think the best new rule is that a keeper can't get ball in his own half, but would extend that to the whole pitch.
Would take away these scenarios and lead to a faster more intense 1 v 1 game.

[Blowitupref]

From the Irish Examiner.  Stephen O'Meara who has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D

16 years ago, Stephen O'Meara brought several motions to his club in a bid to improve Gaelic football. The game was working itself into a dilemma and he believed he had the solution.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Among his suggestions was iterations of rules that would later be introduced and rules that were trialled in Croke Park last weekend as part of the interprovincial series. Way back when, he pushed for a tap and go as well as a penalty for the denial of a goal scoring opportunity.
O'Meara has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D. He freely admits the sport has a problem. He freely admits he has been part of the problem.

"It is the use of the goalkeeper, which I as a coach have taken to the nth degree, just keeping the ball off superior opposition," he explains. "Not making it a game of who is faster and who is better.
"You're trying to minimise that gap in raw ability and athleticism by holding the ball indefinitely and gaining ground slowly and using numbers. Absolutely for me, something has to change. The game has become drab to play. It has become exceptionally drab to look at. Even though I've had a reasonable level of success as a coach and a manager, as a purveyor of the keeper playing out of the back, ultimately it is at the root of a game that has now become boring."
How do you fix that? Well, the Jim Gavin-chaired Football Review Committee (FRC) have met 36 times and considered thousands of different survey responses in a search for the answer. One of their seven core enhancements, the solo and go, is a move towards solving one of O'Meara's major issues, cynical fouling to stop quick transitions and counter-attacks. He pursued an even more radical option, a modified version of basketball's personal foul and free throw rule.
But the big idea is the two-point arc. Combine that with the three/three structure rule and the ban on goalkeepers receiving a pass inside their own half and the FRC believe it will lead to a more exciting game to play and watch.
"This is the major issue," stresses O'Meara. "The big one that will cause all the problems is the two-pointer and the goalkeeper rule. I'm all for banning the back pass to the goalkeeper. Necessary evil, greater good all of that.
"Let me give you some data on this. Give or take a few percent, but on average over the last two years in two-thirds of national league games and all significant championship games, the average uncontested shot from outside 40 metres and inside the 45 is 58% (conversion). This is the key coaching element.

"A moderate pressure shot is 43%. High pressure is 35%. So I'm a coach and I know I can bring my goalkeeper up to make it 12v11 and hold the ball definitely, as Niall Morgan illustrated. That is one element where we did get a reasonable view of how the future would look. The difference is lads didn't cross the ball over 19 times to get their free shot, which they will once it is competitive football. If I am a coach and I realise 58% of uncontested shots from there are going over the bar, I am telling teams 'Hold, hold, hold until you get your two-point shot under no pressure.'

"You transfer possession football from one half into the other half and there is less the opposition can do about it because it is so close to their goal.
"That creates a situation where no one wants one-pointers. I'd estimate an 85-90% chance at a one-pointer is just about value. Otherwise, we won't go for it. Now we will have a situation where I am coaching teams, if we have the ball 30 metres out, don't take the point shot. Come back out. If I am coaching the other team, I am saying there is no value from here, so try corral them back in."
This is the precise thing that was lacking in Croke Park. They were, in a variety of ways, exhibitions. Nobody was out to bend or break a rule. What happens when there are real consequences? Cynicism. Creativity that manifests as negativity. Carnage.

"The three-up, it wasn't spotted at one point when Niall Toner was offside. Can you imagine the carnage on a sideline at a club game when that happens. If a team get caught once and the other gets away with it. Also, teams will eventually strategize it. One will swap out one side while someone swaps in the other side, knowing the defender can't come out.
"If you went with my rule of no back pass to the goalkeeper, so much of this would happen organically. You would have to keep height or it would be too clogged when you have the ball. This version is unpoliceable and unnecessary."
There are 12 qualified and informed members of the FRC who have considered extensive data and a games intelligence report provided by Rob Carroll. Over the course of sandbox matches, they have tracked key measures like goals per game, points, shots, ball-in-play time, contested kickouts and compared them to the 2024 championship average.
O'Meara has long maintained that such a committee shouldn't just be provided with data. An analyst should also form part of the group. Representing the tribe, says you. Sure, but that is the point. They will have a say in the shape and style of Gaelic football regardless. Understand how they think.

Take Connacht. In the final last Saturday they scored 4-15, including three two-pointers. They had 32 kick passes in the entire game. Here is how one boffin would break it down.
"A data analyst like me would show teams, when you kicked the ball, this is what happened. When you went through the hands, this happened. So, Connacht scored 1-2 from eight aggressive kick passes. Moderate forward kick passes, zero from four. So 1-2 from 12 kicks. Through the hands, it was 3-10 from 25, which is 3-13 with the two-pointers. So, the evidence thus far, taken with a large pinch of salt that it was a trial on Saturday, on average there was overwhelming better value on keep the ball through the hands than kicking it."
What about the simple logic that even if it isn't perfect, it surely can't make the game worse?
"It's going to be a radical deterioration of the game. I don't think you can even call it that, it is not going to be the game. It's going to be a new game. A newly created game that I think betrays the natural evolution that has happened since 1884, which does include rule changes.

"There have been well-thought-out, moderate rule changes. Can you imagine in 1990 when they banned the back pass to the goalkeeper in soccer, that they also brought in a rule where it was two goals for a header from a cross, two goals for a long shot, you can only get eight back and leave three up? It just wouldn't have washed. A big issue here is that rule change can only happen every five years. There is going to be a huge opportunity lost. I'd vote no to everything except the solo and go. That only solves 30% of the problems in the game."
Which brings him back to the core point. Something has to change. It doesn't have to be like this.
"Deal with the back pass. Progressive coaches with good teams will immediately press high. You don't need the kickout rule then. The value of going short to the D is completely different. It will become man-on-man. There will be an end-to-end dynamic. The butterfly effect of that creates the 70% that is feasibly realistic. 30% of the aim here feels like utopia naivety.
"I am wholly supportive of what I assume is the idea behind these rules. I am quite certain they are going the completely wrong way about it."

[Saffron_sam20]

From the Irish Examiner.  Stephen O'Meara who has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D

16 years ago, Stephen O'Meara brought several motions to his club in a bid to improve Gaelic football. The game was working itself into a dilemma and he believed he had the solution.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Among his suggestions was iterations of rules that would later be introduced and rules that were trialled in Croke Park last weekend as part of the interprovincial series. Way back when, he pushed for a tap and go as well as a penalty for the denial of a goal scoring opportunity.
O'Meara has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D. He freely admits the sport has a problem. He freely admits he has been part of the problem.

"It is the use of the goalkeeper, which I as a coach have taken to the nth degree, just keeping the ball off superior opposition," he explains. "Not making it a game of who is faster and who is better.
"You're trying to minimise that gap in raw ability and athleticism by holding the ball indefinitely and gaining ground slowly and using numbers. Absolutely for me, something has to change. The game has become drab to play. It has become exceptionally drab to look at. Even though I've had a reasonable level of success as a coach and a manager, as a purveyor of the keeper playing out of the back, ultimately it is at the root of a game that has now become boring."
How do you fix that? Well, the Jim Gavin-chaired Football Review Committee (FRC) have met 36 times and considered thousands of different survey responses in a search for the answer. One of their seven core enhancements, the solo and go, is a move towards solving one of O'Meara's major issues, cynical fouling to stop quick transitions and counter-attacks. He pursued an even more radical option, a modified version of basketball's personal foul and free throw rule.
But the big idea is the two-point arc. Combine that with the three/three structure rule and the ban on goalkeepers receiving a pass inside their own half and the FRC believe it will lead to a more exciting game to play and watch.
"This is the major issue," stresses O'Meara. "The big one that will cause all the problems is the two-pointer and the goalkeeper rule. I'm all for banning the back pass to the goalkeeper. Necessary evil, greater good all of that.
"Let me give you some data on this. Give or take a few percent, but on average over the last two years in two-thirds of national league games and all significant championship games, the average uncontested shot from outside 40 metres and inside the 45 is 58% (conversion). This is the key coaching element.

"A moderate pressure shot is 43%. High pressure is 35%. So I'm a coach and I know I can bring my goalkeeper up to make it 12v11 and hold the ball definitely, as Niall Morgan illustrated. That is one element where we did get a reasonable view of how the future would look. The difference is lads didn't cross the ball over 19 times to get their free shot, which they will once it is competitive football. If I am a coach and I realise 58% of uncontested shots from there are going over the bar, I am telling teams 'Hold, hold, hold until you get your two-point shot under no pressure.'

"You transfer possession football from one half into the other half and there is less the opposition can do about it because it is so close to their goal.
"That creates a situation where no one wants one-pointers. I'd estimate an 85-90% chance at a one-pointer is just about value. Otherwise, we won't go for it. Now we will have a situation where I am coaching teams, if we have the ball 30 metres out, don't take the point shot. Come back out. If I am coaching the other team, I am saying there is no value from here, so try corral them back in."
This is the precise thing that was lacking in Croke Park. They were, in a variety of ways, exhibitions. Nobody was out to bend or break a rule. What happens when there are real consequences? Cynicism. Creativity that manifests as negativity. Carnage.

"The three-up, it wasn't spotted at one point when Niall Toner was offside. Can you imagine the carnage on a sideline at a club game when that happens. If a team get caught once and the other gets away with it. Also, teams will eventually strategize it. One will swap out one side while someone swaps in the other side, knowing the defender can't come out.
"If you went with my rule of no back pass to the goalkeeper, so much of this would happen organically. You would have to keep height or it would be too clogged when you have the ball. This version is unpoliceable and unnecessary."
There are 12 qualified and informed members of the FRC who have considered extensive data and a games intelligence report provided by Rob Carroll. Over the course of sandbox matches, they have tracked key measures like goals per game, points, shots, ball-in-play time, contested kickouts and compared them to the 2024 championship average.
O'Meara has long maintained that such a committee shouldn't just be provided with data. An analyst should also form part of the group. Representing the tribe, says you. Sure, but that is the point. They will have a say in the shape and style of Gaelic football regardless. Understand how they think.

Take Connacht. In the final last Saturday they scored 4-15, including three two-pointers. They had 32 kick passes in the entire game. Here is how one boffin would break it down.
"A data analyst like me would show teams, when you kicked the ball, this is what happened. When you went through the hands, this happened. So, Connacht scored 1-2 from eight aggressive kick passes. Moderate forward kick passes, zero from four. So 1-2 from 12 kicks. Through the hands, it was 3-10 from 25, which is 3-13 with the two-pointers. So, the evidence thus far, taken with a large pinch of salt that it was a trial on Saturday, on average there was overwhelming better value on keep the ball through the hands than kicking it."
What about the simple logic that even if it isn't perfect, it surely can't make the game worse?
"It's going to be a radical deterioration of the game. I don't think you can even call it that, it is not going to be the game. It's going to be a new game. A newly created game that I think betrays the natural evolution that has happened since 1884, which does include rule changes.

"There have been well-thought-out, moderate rule changes. Can you imagine in 1990 when they banned the back pass to the goalkeeper in soccer, that they also brought in a rule where it was two goals for a header from a cross, two goals for a long shot, you can only get eight back and leave three up? It just wouldn't have washed. A big issue here is that rule change can only happen every five years. There is going to be a huge opportunity lost. I'd vote no to everything except the solo and go. That only solves 30% of the problems in the game."
Which brings him back to the core point. Something has to change. It doesn't have to be like this.
"Deal with the back pass. Progressive coaches with good teams will immediately press high. You don't need the kickout rule then. The value of going short to the D is completely different. It will become man-on-man. There will be an end-to-end dynamic. The butterfly effect of that creates the 70% that is feasibly realistic. 30% of the aim here feels like utopia naivety.
"I am wholly supportive of what I assume is the idea behind these rules. I am quite certain they are going the completely wrong way about it."

Yip, he has completely nailed it

[on the sideline]

If these new rules are given the go ahead, when do they come in to club football? Will it just be from the start of 2025?

[Milltown Row2]

Could be amendments to the new rules and maybe other rules coming in!

I'd a mentor tell me yesterday that someone was inside the D.. I couldn't see the D the D was washed out

Good luck when it comes in

[marty34]

I wonder will they think about taking the wee D out now?

Isn't it just there to keep players away from penalty taker?

Maybe just a mark on either side where it currently meets the line and players must stay on either side of it.

[Rossfan]

Are there other motions besides the FRC ones re new rules or anything else going to the Special Congress?

[Smokin Joe]

I wonder will they think about taking the wee D out now?

Isn't it just there to keep players away from penalty taker?

Maybe just a mark on either side where it currently meets the line and players must stay on either side of it.

They need it for hurling?