Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[trueblue1234]

I'm pretty serious. At a championship game yesterday a player bounced the ball did not take it in his hands, took a second bounce and caught the ball. No foul was given for this "dribble" and no one in the crowd complained or cared. If you are in doubt and want to play GAA then simply do not bounce the ball twice in a row.

But in fact if you read the new interpretation of bounce the action, described by you, is absolutely legal, or so I believe.
The dribble should be counted like this, but I'm not sure:
First bounce: player catches the ball, he can hop it as often as he likes once he doesn't catch it, and finally he catches the ball again. These actions should constitute only one bounce. Instead if after all this he were to start dribbling again in this case it would be a second bounce (a kind of double dribble of basketball).
This is the sequence:
1 Bounce: catch, hop as often as he likes and catch. 2 Bounce: catch and hop again, but the second hop would be completed only when the player now catches the ball again.
That is, theoretically until he catches the second dribble the player, I believe, could hit the ball to pass, to score or even to pass it to himself.
But I don't know if this is all correct. That's why I asked for help from you who know much more than me.

No player that I have ever seen has gained a tactical advantage from basketball style dribbling of the ball, it is irrelevant  as to playing the game properly if this is a technical foul or not.

Being able to dribble like in basketball in certain situations could be much more advantageous than doing the traditional 4 steps, bounce, solo and so on.
For example, in a counterattack situation, a player catches the ball and would run much faster if he could catch the ball and then bounce it many times like in basketball.

All sports have rules that can be picked apart and maybe this one can be interpreted in many ways, in any given match it will be for a referee to decide so any validation you get in here will not make a pile of difference  if you were standing on a pitch when a foul is given or not given.

A sport that is not well regulated will never be able to spread worldwide. See the well-defined rules of soccer, volleyball or basketball.

With all due respect, when would dribbling the ball be more advantageous than catching the ball and securely holding it? Dribbling the ball leaves it away from the body and at more risk.

[Gianni]

Soccer does not have well defined rules - e.g. debate over if a foul is dangerous, reckless or just a foul leading to red card, yellow card or no action. And the interpretation of the handball rule which is also up for debate.

Soccer has all the rules and a huge amount of exegesis. The point there is only to interpret the entity of the foul and the consequent sanction but not the rule of the foul itself, that is very clear. But now that is not our topic.

If it was advantageous players would be coached to do it and you would see this action during matches across the globe. You don't so whatever situation you envisage would be extremely limited.

Anyway it would be an extra possibility for the player who has no defender in front of him. He would run much faster than the traditional bounce-4steps-solo and so on.

In so far as I am aware it is legal to do multiple bounces of the ball without catching it. If that is the answer you seek stop asking the question.

Ok, so getting back to the topic, if you catch the ball with your hands can you only do one bounce?
No, because I, probably wrongly being a complete neophyte, had interpreted the rule, as well as the new official interpretation, like this: the player can catch the ball and start bouncing it, that is, catch the ball, start bouncing it, all legal, but an action similar to double dribbe in basketball would have been illegal, but is all that illegal?

Schematizing it all:
- catch ball, hop as many times as you want since you don't catch the ball again, finally catch the ball: legal (in my opinion).
- catch ball, hop as many times as you want since you don't catch it again, finally catch the ball again, interrupting the dribble, and restart bouncing the ball again: illegal (in my opinion).

Is all this wrong?

What does the interpretation I posted, the official one, mean?

"For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce" & "Definition: For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce"

should the foul be called?

That is, the foul is whistled when he catches the ball that has bounced for the second time, i.e. the following:
- catch
- bounce
- rebound without catching it
- bounce second time
- recapture the ball,
at this moment the foul is whistled.

But if he hadn't picked up the ball again, would the foul still have been called?
Maybe he could have continued to bounce it, hit it to pass it to someone else, to score or to pass it to himself, what in these cases?

Can you give examples of how the ball can be bounced without catching it first?
I'll try to imagine how, correct me if I'm wrong please.
1. The player blocks the ball with one or two hands without catching it, the ball bounces from the hand(s) and continues on the ground so the player can continue to bounce it, correct?
2. The ball is already bouncing on the ground by itself and the player accompanies the movement by bouncing it as many times as he wants? Even along the entire length of the court?


[/quote]
With all due respect, when would dribbling the ball be more advantageous than catching the ball and securely holding it? Dribbling the ball leaves it away from the body and at more risk.
[/quote]
Precisely why prohibit something that would give greater spectacle and speed but at the same time would give more chances of losing the ball? That is, it is really almost impossible for someone to steal the ball. But in counterattack it is very advantageous to run by bouncing only.

Please to close the topic I beg you to answer all my questions.

[GTP]

Gianni your fascination with the double bounce is admirable but your posts are, with respect, incomprehensible and impossible to answer.
Good luck finding an answer to your quest

[Gianni]

I try to make the question as simple and understandable as possible.

Are these sequences of actions legal or not?

1. catch the ball -> bounce many times without ever catching it like baskteball -> catch the ball again: legal or not?
2. catch the ball -> bounce many times without ever catching it like basketball -> I catch the ball again and then start bouncing it again like in basketball: legal or not?
3. catch the ball -> bounce many times without ever catching it like in basketball -> on the rebound I hit it with a hand or other part of the body to:
A. Pass it to a teammate
B. Score
C. Pass it to myself (similar to Clifford's action, he takes possession and hops the ball. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces. Maybe I would have thought this would be similar to handpassing the ball over someone's head and catching it.
But only here, in my example, the player dribbles it several times first).
legal or not?

Added to all this is the new official interpretation:
"For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce" & "Definition: For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce"
source: https://munster.gaa.ie/2010/05/playing-rule-changes-2010/

What does it mean? What does it mean for the game?

That's it. I'm afraid the rules don't provide official answers.

[JoG2]

Jeez, we're still on about the bouncing

[johnnycool]

Jeez, we're still on about the bouncing

When will Gianni get to the tackling?

That will be fun!

[JoG2]

Jeez, we're still on about the bouncing

When will Gianni get to the tackling?

That will be fun!

😁.. A hundred pager!

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/09/21/malachy-clerkin-managers-always-moan-about-new-rules-but-they-might-be-right-this-time/
Malachy Clerkin: Managers always moan about new rules, but they might be right this time

Malachy Clerkin
Sat Sept 21 2024 - 06:00
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There may be moaning ahead. Actually, who are we kidding? There's no "may" about it. There will be moaning ahead. There always is. There'll be moaning, noon and night. We're all bound for moaning town. Baby, we were born to moan.
Okay, that last one didn't really work. It was an earnest attempt that came up short, despite good intentions. Think of it as a kind of tribute to how tricky it's going to be over the coming months to get everything to align perfectly.
We speak, of course, of the coming changes to Gaelic football, a game which is simultaneously the most loved and hated thing in Irish sport. A completely precious, cherished slice of our national culture. And at the same time, a thoroughly beaten-down object of derision and ballyragging.
Lately, as we all know, the balance has tilted inexorably towards the latter. Nobody holds back when they're talking about football these days. "The game itself is appalling," said Niall Moyna in the Examiner during the week. "It's probably the most boring game in the world to watch."
Niall Moyna, the Louth selector. That's Louth, this year's Leinster runners-up and All-Ireland quarter-finalists, the county that just got four All-Star nominations in a single year for the first time in the history of the scheme. Louth have been a great story and are a credit to their people but they're nobody's idea of the great entertainers.
If anything, you'd have thought a team like Louth would have a vested interest in keeping the game as boring as possible for as long as possible. But that's where we are — the era of massed defence and dropping off and grinding periods of possession is dreary even to those in the middle of it all. Maybe even especially to them.

 
Deep in the background of all this, Jim Gavin's Football Review Committee (FRC) is beavering away. We are fast approaching the point at which the rubber of their deliberations meets the road of the public getting to see how it all might work in real life. The interprovincial games under the proposed new rules are fixed for Croke Park in four weeks and already the stakes feel weirdly high. Help us, Obi-Jim. You're our only hope.
 
Sligo manager Tony McEntee has said the Football Review Committee has been set up to succeed. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
As has been noted by Sligo manager Tony McEntee among others, at every step along the way the FRC has been set up to succeed. Jarlath Burns spent his first bit of political capital on setting the committee up straight out of the gate. The roll call of football big brains on the list was unimpeachable. Everything about it screamed: "The top brass wants this done so let's get it done!"
Even the initial survey was very clearly weighted towards the notion that the game is broken. One of the questions listed a series of aspects of the game — cynical fouling, continuous handpassing, overly defensive play, among others — and asked respondents to say whether they liked or disliked them. As McEntee notes, there was no option to say, "I don't mind."
[ Seán Moran: Let's hope Jim Gavin's FRC isn't the latest example of squandered expertiseOpens in new window ]
And you know what? The vast majority of people are fine with that. Whatever misgivings they might have about a casually gerrymandered survey are outweighed by their desire for change. They're beyond pussy-footing around with the game and tinkering at its edges. They're willing to try something big and new and radical.
But now. Now we approach the point where the moaning begins. History has taught us that the greatest hurdle new playing rules ever have to cross is always the intercounty managers whose jobs depend on the players trying to implement them.
Limiting handpasses, the black card, the drag-down penalty — all of them were met with a cavalcade of moaning managers early in life. In some cases, it killed the experiment off at birth. In others, it became the soundtrack to years of teething problems.
Self-interest is always at the heart of the moaning. It's not that the managers were ever all that dogmatic about the merits or otherwise of the new rules themselves. It's just that they would much rather say rules came in at some undefined time, away in the future. Preferably about five years hence, when they're coining it on a pundits' couch. It was therefore easy to dismiss any and all moaning that arose.
With the momentum that has been gathering behind the FRC, it felt like the moaning might be a little less pronounced this time around. For one thing, there aren't many managers on the circuit who would feel comfortable taking a swipe at Jim Gavin in public. For another, plenty of them know the game is an eyesore and that something has to be done about it.
But there's a genuine problem on the horizon, brought about only in the past fortnight or so. First, it was the scrapping of the preseason competitions. That was followed a few days ago by an official GAA letter going out to county boards saying that intercounty training can't begin until December 7th. Good, progressive, player-centred moves. But a huge pain for any manager trying to get a handle on the new rules.
Essentially what the GAA is telling them is that if the FRC proposals get through Special Congress at the end of November, the first time players will experience them for real is the opening day of the league in January. Since the league and championship have become linked, there's no such thing as sacking off the spring competition any more. These games matter more than ever. A score here and there can dictate the rest of the season.
So for once, the managers can feel perfectly entitled to their grievances. They have a fortnight's training in December, followed by three weeks in January, with a few challenge matches here and there to get their players used to a whole new way of playing. It will feel like trying to learn Chinese by sticking on Duolingo for the first time on the plane to Beijing.
They will moan about it. They will be right to do so. If that sways the delegates enough to reject the proposals at Special Congress, scrapping the preseason tournaments at such a delicate moment will be an awful ball to have dropped.

[GTP]

A number of the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?

As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.

[Milltown Row2]

A number of the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?

As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.

I've no idea what this change is going to do to improve the quality of the game. I really think they all must have sat in a small air tight room and smoked a few joints and came up with these ideas!

[Saffron_sam20]

A numberof the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?

As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.

I've no idea what this change is going to do to improve the quality of the game. I really think they all must have sat in a small air tight room and smoked a few joints and came up with these ideas!

100%, no idea why the need for it, god help referees at club level, I'm sure introducing these rules will ensure lads banging down the door to take it up. Only 1 I actually like is the quick free to yourself, should stop nightly fouls, rest are ac waste of time.

Was gonna call the trial games glorified friendlies but they are actually less than that. The danger is people watch them and think it's the rules are making the game flow when in reality it's the fact nobody actually cares about the score and playing like a game of 5 a side.

[Rossfan]

True.
The only focus in these games will be the  new rules.
You'd have to see them in a real situation where the main focus would be on winning the game.
The tap and go is a good idea.
Also moving the ball further for dissent, blocking free etc.

NO to arc, 2 pointers and 4 point goals.
My instinct is totally against the must have 3 back and 3 forward.

If they rush into implementing most of the new proposals it could make a right fk up of the NFL.
Was illogical to drop the FBD, etc in this particular year and circumstances. 2026 would have done fine.

[twohands!!!]

One thing on the new rules that makes me hopeful is that at least the people involved all football people which is a massive improvement on the utter farce that is the Standing Rules Committee which has had the same people making rules for both hurling and football.

Also when you compare the calibre of the football people involved in the FRC compared to the SRC it is world's apart in terms of those who are involved at the top level coal-face of football.

If I was running things, the first thing I would do is scrap the Standing Rules Committee and set up two separate rules committees with one for football and one for hurling. I think it would improve things for both games.

Any talk I've heard from people involved with the FRC has been seriously positive. They seem to be far more interested in being pitch/field/game based and trying things out and seeing what actually works in games compared to the SRC which historically has been far more concerned about working things out around a committee-room table.

Also for anyone interested tickets for the provincial trials games are available on ticketmaster now.
They will be on TG4/RTE as well.

Jim Gavin: 'We've danced around' respect problem on pitch for long time
The legendary former Dublin boss has been encouraged by the quality of his Football Review Committee's trial games.
Jim Gavin: 'We've danced around' respect problem on pitch for long time
Jim Gavin was speaking after the latest "sandbox" games between Cavan and Kildare in Mullahoran this past weekend. Pic Maxwell's

Tue, 08 Oct, 2024 - 08:52
John Fogarty
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Football Review Committee (FRC) chairman Jim Gavin believes the GAA have been "dancing around" their initiative of showing respect to officials and players.

Dublin's six-time All-Ireland SFC winning manager Gavin has been greatly encouraged by the quality of the FRC trial games as players have had to hand the ball to a fouled opponent. Failing to do so results in a free being brought forward 50m.

Speaking after the latest "sandbox" games between Cavan and Kildare in Mullahoran this past weekend, Gavin believes the "solo and go" option for an offended player and dissent punishment are contributing to quicker games.

"Players were either putting the ball on the ground, giving it to the referee, throwing it in the air or rolling it to the side and the purpose of that is to delay the play," he told "Shannonside FM". "When you hand the ball to the player, the player can immediately take a solo and go or a free.

"It speeds the game and if you don't do it, it's a halfway line penalty. We have these new rules, very subtle ones but (aimed) to deincentivise delayed ball. Deincentivise players speaking, dissent – there wasn't a peep out of anyone there today.

"That 'give respect, get respect', we've danced around it for a long time. We say the standard you walk by is the standard you expect and we've walking around dissent a long time. We have an opportunity now to tidy it up." Ahead of Thursday's finalised rules launch and next week's interprovincial games in Croke Park that will be played under them, Gavin reiterated his hope that the "rule enchancements" are adopted in full by Central Council later this month. They will then go forward to be voted on at Special Congress on November 30.

Mentioning the rule change that three outfield players from each team must remain behind the halfway line at all times, Gavin acknowledged it will be difficult to implement at club level initially but insisted: "If it doesn't (pass), there are interdependencies. If those three players don't need to be up, that kicking pass game that you saw today won't be there because there is nobody up there to kick it to.

"We believe it's a fundamental part of the game and it speaks to the tradition when we look back at games of the past. We're not saying you need to keep a bit of structure in terms of three players being up."

Proposed new Gaelic football rules to be confirmed this week but tweaks still being made
Football Review Committee member James Horan explained that the 'three up' rule has been modified while it seems the proposal to replace penalties with an overtime showdown will not go ahead.
Proposed new Gaelic football rules to be confirmed this week but tweaks still being made
MUNSTER'S MAN: Cork manager John Cleary will be in charge of the Munster team in the upcoming Football Review Committee interprovincial gaes. Pic: Ray McManus/Sportsfile

Tue, 08 Oct, 2024 - 07:30
Maurice Brosnan
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Cork manager John Cleary has confirmed that managers and coaches from every Munster county will be involved on his ticket ahead of the Football Review Committee (FRC) interprovincial tournament in Croke Park later this month.

Cleary takes charge of the province while Galway's Pádraic Joyce is over Connacht. Fermanagh manager Kieran Donnelly is Ulster manager and Leinster's is Dessie Dolan.

Speaking on the Irish Examiner Gaelic football podcast, Cleary said they will train together this week ahead of the televised games on October 19 and 20.

"How it came about is that Jack O'Connor is Kerry manager and they won the provincial, but he was unavailable. Jim asked me then to do it. I have Jimmy Lee, Paul Shankey, Philly Ryan and Cian O'Neill on board. Colm Collins is filling in at the moment for (managerless) Clare.

"We meet late tonight and we'll send an email to see who is available from each county because there is a lot of people still involved in the club championship. You have to have two from each county at least, that is probably the first 12 places gone on the panel."

He continued: "The rules will be explained to us on Saturday morning and then maybe an hour on the pitch to go through it. You maybe won't have all the players, there is a lot of games next weekend and there could be players who we want to bring the following weekend who are available."

The finalised rules will be confirmed this week.

Speaking on the podcast, former Mayo manager and FRC member James Horan explained that the 'three up' rule has been modified. A halfway line will be used instead of the 65m line with a new pitch marking proposed.

He also suggested the proposal to replace penalties with an overtime showdown will not go ahead.

"I'm not sure that will be going forward. We have a seventh sandbox game on Saturday, Cavan played Kildare in a cracking game. We'd a number of experienced intercounty players on both sides, obviously new guys too. The questioning they do and their level of understanding is top notch. Really smart players pick it up quickly," said Horan.

"The overtime showdown, it is something we tried. Some will make it through and some won't. We will have a final review of this. It wasn't breeze related but that is a valid concern, it was tired players, decision making and skill execution is down. So, there is too much variable in time. It went on for seven or eight minutes before the first shot. With that amount of variability and whatever, we have to take it aside and tease through it. I'd say that is under serious discussion."

Horan said last weekend's trial game was received positively.

"I was talking to James Burke the coach and Daniel Flynn from Kildare as well, firstly the main thing is they really enjoyed the game. Daniel Flynn was playing at six actually. Imagine his power and pace coming onto the ball. It was interesting already managers are trying lads in different positions.

"Because kickouts have to go outside the 40-metre arch and the three-up, pressing kickouts is a whole different level. It is a longer kickout even if you have to go short and they have to keep three up so kickouts are more contested.

"Cavan kept two players at times behind the (Kildare) goalkeeper taking the kickout which you can do. Then four pressed six taking a chance. So if they won it, they could bomb it into the two guys. There was all this brilliant stuff, fellas thinking through it and trying to find an advantage. Teams that embrace them and really explore them for their benefit could really get a jump."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41491415.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41491472.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41491280.html

[samuel maguire]

A numberof the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?

As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.

I've no idea what this change is going to do to improve the quality of the game. I really think they all must have sat in a small air tight room and smoked a few joints and came up with these ideas!

100%, no idea why the need for it, god help referees at club level, I'm sure introducing these rules will ensure lads banging down the door to take it up. Only 1 I actually like is the quick free to yourself, should stop nightly fouls, rest are ac waste of time.

Was gonna call the trial games glorified friendlies but they are actually less than that. The danger is people watch them and think it's the rules are making the game flow when in reality it's the fact nobody actually cares about the score and playing like a game of 5 a side.

How can anyone possibly complain about this? Rossfan you are just as bad for agreeing really. Fair play to the FRC for trying to improve our game. Ofcourse most of these rules are silly and will not be implemented, but if we can even find 1 or 2 that improve our game then hey what a success.
Using these games to trial the rules (which is broadcast on national tv) is a great idea. The FRC also put out an in-depth survey to all watchers/members of GAA asking what they currently like/dislike about the current game as a spectacle, and im sure they will gauge the reaction of these upcoming games of both the players and anyone who watches it.

The FRC is made up of a number of very intelligent football men, not a couple of gimps wearing suits. I am all for it. 

[Rossfan]

You're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly  and won't be implemented?!,

Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?