Joe Brolly

LC · June 14, 2024, 06:05:20 PM

Lampooned maybe not the correct word however it was a very personal attack.

tyroneman · June 14, 2024, 06:13:41 PM

So let me see if I understand this correctly from all these posts, articles and podcasts (and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong) - are the general issues Brolly seems to have with Harte managing Derry that (in no particular order).........?

He's an outside manager and that's intrinsically bad (nevermind Fermanagh's Gallagher who didn't seem to attract the same noise from JB for being an outside manager at the time, or indeed Dublin's Brian Mullins, who iirc Brolly wrote an article about, patting himself on the back for personally influencing to come to Derry back in the 90s)
Outside Managers won't win anything with another county (nevermind Harte's league title, Gallagher's Ulster title or O'Rourke's club All Ireland with Glen or more recently Limerick's Leo O'Connor with the Offaly U20's Leinster title win
Outside Managers won't win Intercounty All Irelands (nevermind Mayo's John O Mahoney winning with Galway)
He's too passive on the sideline, indicating he doesn't care about Derry (nevermind he was exactly the same on the sideline for near 20 odd years with Tyrone, who he definatley did care about and won x3 senior All irelands with)
He started Glen players straight after the Club final not giving them a rest (nevermind Glen players starting v Limerick the week after the 2023 club final)
He's played the GK up the pitch (nevermind Derry doing similar in 2023)
He is soley responsible for players getting sent off through his lack of overall discipline in the panel (nevermind McKinless getting red carded in 22 for eye gouging, under Gallagher. Does that also mean that any of the sending offs that happened with say.. Kilkenny under Cody ...were for lack of discpline??? a man famed for his iron grip on the team? And does that also mean that Derry senior Intercounty footballers have no personal responsiblity to control themselves on a pitch?
His Derry team let 4 goals in, in 1 game, therefore the AI dream is dead (nevermind Tyrone conceding 4 goals to Down in 2003 and winning an All Ireland the same year)
He is wrong for publically blaming players for poor performances, but also wrong for not publically blaming players for poor discipline

Did I get anything wrong or miss something?

Champion The Wonder Horse · June 14, 2024, 06:29:20 PM

Quote from: tyroneman on June 14, 2024, 06:13:41 PMSo let me see if I understand this correctly (and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong) - are the general issues Brolly seems to have with Harte managing Derry that (in no particular order).........?

He's an outside manager and that's intrinsically bad (nevermind Fermanagh's Gallagher who didn't seem to attract the same noise from JB for being an outside manager at the time, or indeed Dublin's Brian Mullins, who iirc Brolly wrote an article about, patting himself on the back for personally influencing to come to Derry back in the 90s)
Outside Managers won't win anything with another county (nevermind Harte's league title, Gallagher's Ulster title or O'Rourke's club All Ireland with Glen or more recently Limerick's Leo O'Connor with the Offaly U20's Leinster title win
Outside Managers won't win Intercounty All Irelands (nevermind Mayo's John O Mahoney winning with Galway)
He's too passive on the sideline, indicating he doesn't care about Derry (nevermind he was exactly the same on the sideline for near 20 odd years with Tyrone, who he definatley did care about and won x3 senior All irelands with)
He started Glen players straight after the Club final not giving them a rest (nevermind Glen players starting v Limerick the week after the 2023 club final)
He's played the GK up the pitch (nevermind Derry doing similar in 2023)
He is soley responsible for players getting sent off through his lack of overall discipline in the panel (nevermind McKinless getting red carded in 22 for an eye gouge, under Gallagher, or indeed any of the sending off's that happened with say.. Kilkenny under Cody ...a man famed for his iron grip on the team)
His Derry team let 4 goals in, in 1 game, therefore the AI dream is dead (nevermind Tyrone conceding 4 goals to Down in 2003 and winning an All Ireland the same year)
He is wrong for publically blaming players for poor performances, but also wrong for not publically blaming players for poor discipline

Did I get anything wrong or miss something?

Nope, quite a comprehensive summary there, Mickey.

Well maybe the bit about conceding four goals and winning an Ulster championship match. The 1980 Ulster final would have been a better example.

tyroneman · June 14, 2024, 06:33:23 PM

Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on June 14, 2024, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on June 14, 2024, 06:13:41 PMSo let me see if I understand this correctly (and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong) - are the general issues Brolly seems to have with Harte managing Derry that (in no particular order).........?

He's an outside manager and that's intrinsically bad (nevermind Fermanagh's Gallagher who didn't seem to attract the same noise from JB for being an outside manager at the time, or indeed Dublin's Brian Mullins, who iirc Brolly wrote an article about, patting himself on the back for personally influencing to come to Derry back in the 90s)
Outside Managers won't win anything with another county (nevermind Harte's league title, Gallagher's Ulster title or O'Rourke's club All Ireland with Glen or more recently Limerick's Leo O'Connor with the Offaly U20's Leinster title win
Outside Managers won't win Intercounty All Irelands (nevermind Mayo's John O Mahoney winning with Galway)
He's too passive on the sideline, indicating he doesn't care about Derry (nevermind he was exactly the same on the sideline for near 20 odd years with Tyrone, who he definatley did care about and won x3 senior All irelands with)
He started Glen players straight after the Club final not giving them a rest (nevermind Glen players starting v Limerick the week after the 2023 club final)
He's played the GK up the pitch (nevermind Derry doing similar in 2023)
He is soley responsible for players getting sent off through his lack of overall discipline in the panel (nevermind McKinless getting red carded in 22 for an eye gouge, under Gallagher, or indeed any of the sending off's that happened with say.. Kilkenny under Cody ...a man famed for his iron grip on the team)
His Derry team let 4 goals in, in 1 game, therefore the AI dream is dead (nevermind Tyrone conceding 4 goals to Down in 2003 and winning an All Ireland the same year)
He is wrong for publically blaming players for poor performances, but also wrong for not publically blaming players for poor discipline

Did I get anything wrong or miss something?

Quote from: tyroneman on June 14, 2024, 06:13:41 PMSo let me see if I understand this correctly (and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong) - are the general issues Brolly seems to have with Harte managing Derry that (in no particular order).........?

He's an outside manager and that's intrinsically bad (nevermind Fermanagh's Gallagher who didn't seem to attract the same noise from JB for being an outside manager at the time, or indeed Dublin's Brian Mullins, who iirc Brolly wrote an article about, patting himself on the back for personally influencing to come to Derry back in the 90s)
Outside Managers won't win anything with another county (nevermind Harte's league title, Gallagher's Ulster title or O'Rourke's club All Ireland with Glen or more recently Limerick's Leo O'Connor with the Offaly U20's Leinster title win
Outside Managers won't win Intercounty All Irelands (nevermind Mayo's John O Mahoney winning with Galway)
He's too passive on the sideline, indicating he doesn't care about Derry (nevermind he was exactly the same on the sideline for near 20 odd years with Tyrone, who he definatley did care about and won x3 senior All irelands with)
He started Glen players straight after the Club final not giving them a rest (nevermind Glen players starting v Limerick the week after the 2023 club final)
He's played the GK up the pitch (nevermind Derry doing similar in 2023)
He is soley responsible for players getting sent off through his lack of overall discipline in the panel (nevermind McKinless getting red carded in 22 for an eye gouge, under Gallagher, or indeed any of the sending off's that happened with say.. Kilkenny under Cody ...a man famed for his iron grip on the team)
His Derry team let 4 goals in, in 1 game, therefore the AI dream is dead (nevermind Tyrone conceding 4 goals to Down in 2003 and winning an All Ireland the same year)
He is wrong for publically blaming players for poor performances, but also wrong for not publically blaming players for poor discipline

Did I get anything wrong or miss something?

Nope, quite a comprehensive summary there, Mickey.

Well maybe the bit about conceding four goals and winning an Ulster championship match. The 1980 Ulster final would have been a better example.

That's a good shout about 1980. Forgot about that

Truthsayer · June 14, 2024, 07:04:49 PM

Correct... Derry are doing great, everything 100%... progressing well since Mickey took over. Keep it up lads : )

tyroneman · June 14, 2024, 07:37:00 PM

Quote from: Truthsayer on June 14, 2024, 07:04:49 PMCorrect... Derry are doing great, everything 100%... progressing well since Mickey took over. Keep it up lads : )

Not saying that Harte has got, or is getting, everything right....just looks like he is getting the blame for a very wide range of issues and no one else seems to be coming under fire.

Is it really ALL Harte's fault?

JoG2 · June 14, 2024, 07:43:43 PM

Quote from: tyroneman on June 14, 2024, 07:37:00 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on June 14, 2024, 07:04:49 PMCorrect... Derry are doing great, everything 100%... progressing well since Mickey took over. Keep it up lads : )

Not saying that Harte has got, or is getting, everything right....just looks like he is getting the blame for a very wide range of issues and no one else seems to be coming under fire.

Is it really ALL Harte's fault?

According to Brolly and Brollylite above, yes.

Truthsayer · June 14, 2024, 08:22:24 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on June 14, 2024, 07:43:43 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on June 14, 2024, 07:37:00 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on June 14, 2024, 07:04:49 PMCorrect... Derry are doing great, everything 100%... progressing well since Mickey took over. Keep it up lads : )

Not saying that Harte has got, or is getting, everything right....just looks like he is getting the blame for a very wide range of issues and no one else seems to be coming under fire.

Is it really ALL Harte's fault?

According to Brolly and Brollylite above, yes.

Brollylite 🤣 that's actually funny!

Wildweasel74 · June 14, 2024, 09:33:14 PM

I think alot of the players need take some blame, some couldn't behave themselves away, Discipline mostly player responsibility. Desire, bite alot down to players too. Harte big problem which he can take blame for, is not a big panel which is required at this level and didn't blood enough players during the league. Tactics, I feel he extended Derrys play with kickpassing instead of Gallagher sole handpassing approach, which is a plus. But the sheer inability not to see the obvious and change mid game to defensive set up where required, and not push up so far, and tell the Keeper not to go by the 45 all down to him.

onefineday · June 15, 2024, 09:12:09 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on June 14, 2024, 07:57:37 AMMaybe, but why did it take from 5 months, 14+ games before we had our first man sent off under the current management?

Because it took a while for players to get to know the management boundaries etc?
I know there's been the regrettable odd incident like the gouging, but one of the things I'd really admired about this team was their discipline, accepting referee decisions, supporting each other, not bickering with each other, the Galway game was the first time I'd noted that sort of nonsense in 3 or 4 years, the Armagh game was even worse.
[/quote]

Boundaries etc... Are we talking about 1st years at the big school here? And what has them bickering with each other and not supporting each other in your opinion?
[/quote]

Boundaries are a facet of most environments in life, be it work, relationships and very definitely a key part of a team environment.
There'll always be people testing limits to see what they get away with and if you think it'll be grand to head away a weekend before a game or take a few liberties after a tough few days training they'll do that and that seems to be where we are now.

I very obviously don't have a clue what's going on, except from what we see on the pitch and to me, the last few games have demonstrated players not working and supporting each other in the manner our gameplan of the last few years has required. That has led to crabbitness from key players, frustration with refs and general indiscipline.
It looks like this season is beyond saving at this point, injuries haven't helped either, but maybe a break wouldn't be a bad thing, give everyone a bit of time away from each other and return, refreshed under new management next year.

JoG2 · June 15, 2024, 11:07:32 AM

Quote from: onefineday on June 15, 2024, 09:12:09 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 14, 2024, 07:57:37 AMMaybe, but why did it take from 5 months, 14+ games before we had our first man sent off under the current management?

Because it took a while for players to get to know the management boundaries etc?
I know there's been the regrettable odd incident like the gouging, but one of the things I'd really admired about this team was their discipline, accepting referee decisions, supporting each other, not bickering with each other, the Galway game was the first time I'd noted that sort of nonsense in 3 or 4 years, the Armagh game was even worse.

Boundaries etc... Are we talking about 1st years at the big school here? And what has them bickering with each other and not supporting each other in your opinion?
[/quote]

Boundaries are a facet of most environments in life, be it work, relationships and very definitely a key part of a team environment.
There'll always be people testing limits to see what they get away with and if you think it'll be grand to head away a weekend before a game or take a few liberties after a tough few days training they'll do that and that seems to be where we are now.

I very obviously don't have a clue what's going on, except from what we see on the pitch and to me, the last few games have demonstrated players not working and supporting each other in the manner our gameplan of the last few years has required. That has led to crabbitness from key players, frustration with refs and general indiscipline.
It looks like this season is beyond saving at this point, injuries haven't helped either, but maybe a break wouldn't be a bad thing, give everyone a bit of time away from each other and return, refreshed under new management next year.
[/quote]

You must if you're saying it's on Harte.

As for giving up on the season, I'm lost for words at that tbh.

onefineday · June 16, 2024, 07:38:17 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on June 15, 2024, 11:07:32 AMAs for giving up on the season, I'm lost for words at that tbh.

I think in the long run it would be for the best, the way we're playing we're going to get another serious tanking. Imagine if we managed to get a good draw and made a quarter final and drew Dublin - it'd be carnage.
Even worse, Tyrone will annihilate us on yesterday's form.

It's really sad to see this from a team who have given us so much for the last 3 years.
The Derry team of now would lose to the Derry team of 3 months ago by 20pts.

square_ball · June 16, 2024, 06:24:38 PM

Hopefully Joe will be on the phone to his cousin Vinny to tell him not to be pushing his goalkeeper up the field after Beggan was caught out for another goal today.

Truthsayer · June 16, 2024, 06:55:29 PM

Quote from: square_ball on June 16, 2024, 06:24:38 PMHopefully Joe will be on the phone to his cousin Vinny to tell him not to be pushing his goalkeeper up the field after Beggan was caught out for another goal today.

I think Monaghan beat Meath. Hardly comparing like for like with Beggan giving much more consistently going forward for Monaghan while Lynch's running back and falling into the net time after time this last few months has been comical.. lucky not to be caught again yesterday. If Harte persists with it which he's doing its goodnight Derry..

Snapchap · June 18, 2024, 11:29:22 AM

After devoting a two part special to Mickey Harte bashing, the Free State Podcast moved onto a new topic today - Brian Mullins. Except it took all of about 15 minutes for it to become another Harte bashing episode, including one instance of Joe (who devoted a podcast recently to the importance of being kind to others) terming Harte a "c*nt". Stay classy Joe.