Man Utd Thread:

[magpie seanie]

No offence MS but you have zero room to be giving people advice about not directing their spite at the manager who is caught in a hopeless position, the vitriol you directed towards Mourinho makes you out to be a complete hyprocrite. Or completely stupid.

No offence?? Are you calling me a hypocrite or completely stupid in a nice way or something? 

People won't like me revisiting this as my position has been crystal clear but I feel I have to do so now.

Mourinho should never have been hired by Manchester United. I was consistent on this long before he was appointed. He simply was not a fit for the club and his conduct throughout his career and at his previous job were that of a sc**bag. While in the job he was consistently backed in the transfer market and his moves were largely disastrous. When he didn't get backed after wasting so much money he threw the toys out of the pram and stopped doing his job. He made a bad situation much worse. He consistently got into trouble with officials, the FA and publicly called out and humiliated players. It now appears at his current club that he is already losing the dressing room.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a different story. Some of his interview comments are cringy but I wouldn't get too hung up on that (managers don't tell the truth, they're speaking to their players). The defending is not good enough and should have been fixed. However he has bought well, improved several players considerably and conducted himself impeccably in difficult circumstances.

I hope after this explanation you will retract your comments. Thank you.

[Keyser soze]

No offence MS but you have zero room to be giving people advice about not directing their spite at the manager who is caught in a hopeless position, the vitriol you directed towards Mourinho makes you out to be a complete hyprocrite. Or completely stupid.

No offence?? Are you calling me a hypocrite or completely stupid in a nice way or something? 

People won't like me revisiting this as my position has been crystal clear but I feel I have to do so now.

Mourinho should never have been hired by Manchester United. I was consistent on this long before he was appointed. He simply was not a fit for the club and his conduct throughout his career and at his previous job were that of a sc**bag. While in the job he was consistently backed in the transfer market and his moves were largely disastrous. When he didn't get backed after wasting so much money he threw the toys out of the pram and stopped doing his job. He made a bad situation much worse. He consistently got into trouble with officials, the FA and publicly called out and humiliated players. It now appears at his current club that he is already losing the dressing room.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a different story. Some of his interview comments are cringy but I wouldn't get too hung up on that (managers don't tell the truth, they're speaking to their players). The defending is not good enough and should have been fixed. However he has bought well, improved several players considerably and conducted himself impeccably in difficult circumstances.

I hope after this explanation you will retract your comments. Thank you.

So what you're saying that is that Mourinho bought bad players had the team playing crap and not challenging and deserved the sack, but that Woodward is now in charge of signings and therefore Ole should not be held responsible for the team being crap and having the worst run of results since god knows when.

Can't think of anyone who got in more trouble with officials FA etc than Fergie.... and there was plenty of players he gave the boot to. 

[Look-Up!]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

[Taylor]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

[Maiden1]

Any time a manager says they are 'down to the bare bones' or that they are 2 players short should raise alarm bells.  Klopp got Liverpool to the champions league final before he signed Allison and VVD.  Alex Ferguson won his last league title with Welbeck up front.  Unless they sign a player like Messi or Neymar a new signing will probably only improve the team a little.  Letting players like Lukaku, Smalling, Young etc. go and not considering Rashford might pick up an injury or be fatigued with a long season seems like a mistake right now.  They have spent about 1 billion pounds since Ferguson left, the Glazers probably want to see how Ole gets on with the players he has got before buying a lot of new players.

[Look-Up!]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

Yes they do. They might not be big burly brutes but they are freaks. You cannot hold up and turn PL defenders without exceptional physical attributes and you cannot last a season without exceptional physical conditioning.

[gallsman]

The only resolution to this is a drastic one and one that is probably impossible - supporters need to boycott the club until they leave. Don't buy the jersey. Don't support the sponsors. Maybe even don't go to the games though I wouldn't be as strong on that. It's the only answer. So rather than direct your ire at a club legend caught in a hopeless position, try to address the root cause. #sackwoodward #luhg

Might I suggest a few purchases of some green and gold scarves?

[gallsman]

There was a news report there over past few days the share price had went up by a third, just googled the share price - doesn't look like it's that much but its been steadily rising since November (to a slight dip today...oddly).

It was $15 something in October. It was $20 something last week. That's a third.

[Maroon Manc]

United's share price was $25 about 18 months ago. Its not a great indicator anyway, only a very small % of the clubs share are held on the stock exchange.

[Taylor]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

Yes they do. They might not be big burly brutes but they are freaks. You cannot hold up and turn PL defenders without exceptional physical attributes and you cannot last a season without exceptional physical conditioning.

Ok so the top two teams in the PL dont have big brutes so to be one of the top teams you dont have to go down that route.

Exceptional physical condition should be a given at that level

[Maroon Manc]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

[tiempo]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Agree with this. Ole not the answer and the process is overwhelmingly flawed but its a top 4 team when fit, hes been a bit unlucky with injuries, he's gradually getting rid of the dead wood, I think he's in position to carry out the guts of this cull before being culled himself and a vibrant new manager installed with a better overall plan and process, if they can find a vibrant new manager that is.

[magpie seanie]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Agree 100%.

[toby47]

Tevez

[trailer]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Delusional. It's no more a top four side than I am a top 4 manager. There's a load of players who'd do well to hold down a place in last nights Burnley side. Rashford has been carrying them and now he's injured they're scuppered.