Donegal v Tyrone Sun 17 May

[sligoman]

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/triumphalism-sparks-fury-26305173.html

[INDIANA]

Sledging is nothing new nor do I agree with it or condone it. When northern teams would be lining up for Amhran na bhFiann, some "southern" players from "southern"  teams would regularly try to wind them up by asking them when their anthem was going to be played, calling them British basatards, go back to England and you'd have nothing up there were it not for the Queen etc etc. I emphasise that only some players would do this. Same on all teams. To broad brush a whole team or a whole region of players is just trying to generalise, is lazy and is completely wrong. So fair is fair.

And for Indy to come on and say that Harte made a quote in 2000 about it being a Tyrone tactic and that he "trains" his teams in sledging etc is again insulting and way way off the mark and very disappointing. All teams will have players that will take things up to the line and even over it on occasion, but please don't label them all.

If you wanted to, you could probably look back over time and select certain players from most counties who engaged in a certain types of way that might have let their side down and that wasn't considered gentlemanly or appropriate behaviour. Back in the day, it was only angels that played football and hurling. I always reflect on Mickey Ned running through the Dublin defence and after about 6 Dublin men fail in trying to break his leg / stop his progress, the bold Sean Doherty, the Dublin full back comes forth from his full back position where he stood all day, and unceremoniously "tackles" Mickey Ned, knocking him unconscious, Mickey Ned is carrried off on a door and doesn't remember the day of the all Ireland final and isn't able to accept the Sam Maguire that day.But sure that was the Kerry golden years and Heffo's army and all that. Happy days. Have a look and reminisce about the good old days. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9VY7BKKCw

And now to Mr. Whelan -  basically Whelo is saying that it was alright ( please refer to Peter Canavan's article last week about men trying to break his leg and jaw ) to go out and "do" a man with a shoe or a fist but it's terrible to whisper something in his ear. Oh the irony of it all.

And finally I don't accept that reacting to sledging is in some way a deficit in your make up and is a human weakness and that sledging should be laughed off.

It's the truth and you know it. I will post the quote if you want. I know the way your teams are trained. We copied your devlopment model in the early 2000s but we left that bit out. I've first hand experience of being on the line at underage matches between the two counties listening to it so don't tell me I'm spoofing when I've first hand experience of it. Why oh why you have to engage in it at all is beyond me
However Donegal were at least as bad at it yesterday and unfortunately now it's become part of the game for most counties now

Post the development model where it says that sledging is on the programme.

And Dublin players and players from other counties have been engaged in sledging. As you say it's almost endemic now unfortunately. Pillar's men were saints and never engaged in anything other than good clean football. No sledging or anything like that.

Jinxy is right -  sledging is bad and doesn't work and is getting far too much negative publicity ( and rightly so ) - we need to bring back a bit of good old style Meath  fisticuffs / schemozzle type behaviour.

Let's hear it for the Meath men.

And by saying that sledging is nothing new is not even an attempt at defending that type of behaviour. It's wrong.

Dublin have had Sledgers in the past . But when you look at the list of them . They all had one thing  in common all sub standard players who needed the sledging because ultimately they were hiding their own inadequacies. They didn't deliver all Ireland's. The current Dublin team doesn't engage in it because they don't have to or need to.
It was the one nasty element of the Tyrone 2003-2008 team. And when you look at the players who are at it you can understand why. They won all Ireland's on the back of other players excellence . The current Tyrone team are all at it for the simple reason they need all the help they can get.

[The Bearded One]

One post only from me on yesterday's game and I will leave you all to it as I can't stomach some of the nonsense on this thread.

My overall feeling is one of disappointment, I had a quiet confidence heading to Ballybofey yesterday and we were right in the game after McCurry's goal but the scores conceded just before half time were a disaster. In the second half we couldn't get our noses in front and Donegal were excellent at picking off scores to keep us at arm's length every time we got it level. An enjoyable game, full of effort and heart from both teams. We just can't seem to get the better of this Donegal team and fair play to them for that, they take everything Tyrone throw at them and come back for more and I can only admire their ability to do that.

I take great issue with some of the comments about Tyrone, it's as if we are the only GAA team in the country who play on the edge or indeed overstep the mark. I'm not going to come on here and say we don't go too far on occasions, I know we do. But at least I can see it and hold my hands up to say it happens. Most other people are completely blinded by county loyalty and it's laughable really. For every late hit and word exchanged between Justin McMahon and Michael Murphy yesterday see Eamon McGee on Sean Cavanagh. See Ronan McNamee on McBrearty, see Paddy McGrath hanging off Darren McCurry. Teams set out to disrupt and negate the oppositions key men, but if you read everything on this board you would think Tyrone are the only guilty party. Neil McGee saw big McNulty coming his direction and wrestled him to the ground to lay down his marker. When Mark McHugh came on he got a rattle straight away from Mattie Donnelly. Take off the rose tinted glasses and see the game for what it is. If you don't like it, fine, but don't try to absolve your own county from all blame because you are too blind to see the truth.

When the final whistle blew yesterday the players shook hands and left it at that. I wish some of you on here could do that as well.

[Main Street]

There's a direct inverse relationship between the rise of sledging and the demise of punching in gaelic football.
We need to bring back punching.

I agree 

[orangeman]

Sledging is nothing new nor do I agree with it or condone it. When northern teams would be lining up for Amhran na bhFiann, some "southern" players from "southern"  teams would regularly try to wind them up by asking them when their anthem was going to be played, calling them British basatards, go back to England and you'd have nothing up there were it not for the Queen etc etc. I emphasise that only some players would do this. Same on all teams. To broad brush a whole team or a whole region of players is just trying to generalise, is lazy and is completely wrong. So fair is fair.

And for Indy to come on and say that Harte made a quote in 2000 about it being a Tyrone tactic and that he "trains" his teams in sledging etc is again insulting and way way off the mark and very disappointing. All teams will have players that will take things up to the line and even over it on occasion, but please don't label them all.

If you wanted to, you could probably look back over time and select certain players from most counties who engaged in a certain types of way that might have let their side down and that wasn't considered gentlemanly or appropriate behaviour. Back in the day, it was only angels that played football and hurling. I always reflect on Mickey Ned running through the Dublin defence and after about 6 Dublin men fail in trying to break his leg / stop his progress, the bold Sean Doherty, the Dublin full back comes forth from his full back position where he stood all day, and unceremoniously "tackles" Mickey Ned, knocking him unconscious, Mickey Ned is carrried off on a door and doesn't remember the day of the all Ireland final and isn't able to accept the Sam Maguire that day.But sure that was the Kerry golden years and Heffo's army and all that. Happy days. Have a look and reminisce about the good old days. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9VY7BKKCw

And now to Mr. Whelan -  basically Whelo is saying that it was alright ( please refer to Peter Canavan's article last week about men trying to break his leg and jaw ) to go out and "do" a man with a shoe or a fist but it's terrible to whisper something in his ear. Oh the irony of it all.

And finally I don't accept that reacting to sledging is in some way a deficit in your make up and is a human weakness and that sledging should be laughed off.

It's the truth and you know it. I will post the quote if you want. I know the way your teams are trained. We copied your devlopment model in the early 2000s but we left that bit out. I've first hand experience of being on the line at underage matches between the two counties listening to it so don't tell me I'm spoofing when I've first hand experience of it. Why oh why you have to engage in it at all is beyond me
However Donegal were at least as bad at it yesterday and unfortunately now it's become part of the game for most counties now

Post the development model where it says that sledging is on the programme.

And Dublin players and players from other counties have been engaged in sledging. As you say it's almost endemic now unfortunately. Pillar's men were saints and never engaged in anything other than good clean football. No sledging or anything like that.

Jinxy is right -  sledging is bad and doesn't work and is getting far too much negative publicity ( and rightly so ) - we need to bring back a bit of good old style Meath  fisticuffs / schemozzle type behaviour.

Let's hear it for the Meath men.

And by saying that sledging is nothing new is not even an attempt at defending that type of behaviour. It's wrong.

Dublin have had Sledgers in the past . But when you look at the list of them . They all had one thing  in common all sub standard players who needed the sledging because ultimately they were hiding their own inadequacies. They didn't deliver all Ireland's. The current Dublin team doesn't engage in it because they don't have to or need to.
It was the one nasty element of the Tyrone 2003-2008 team. And when you look at the players who are at it you can understand why. They won all Ireland's on the back of other players excellence . The current Tyrone team are all at it for the simple reason they need all the help they can get.

I'm not for arguing with you anymore after you've just accused an entire team and management of engaging in and promoting sledging.

You do make real good points / arguments on here but you lose a lot by taking the broad brush out and peddling untruths about development squads plans etc.

Donegal must need a lot of help too if you're argument above stacks up - you said a few posts back that Donegal were every bit as bad as Tyrone were. That's insulting to the Donegal team as well.

That's me finished. I've had my say.

[WT4E]

Regarding sledging yesterday - I seem to remember alot of Donegal players doing it too.

Obviously Eamon McGee was at it considering the strong reactions of some of the players towards him during the game - not least at half time!

Sean Cavanagh wouldn't be the type to start trouble - usually pretty calm!

Also young Mark Bradley came on and I think he miscontrolled the ball out over the end line and I can't remember who the player was but they were shouting into his face after he did it! No call for that kind of behaviour either.

[nrico2006]

Regarding sledging yesterday - I seem to remember alot of Donegal players doing it too.

Obviously Eamon McGee was at it considering the strong reactions of some of the players towards him during the game - not least at half time!

Sean Cavanagh wouldn't be the type to start trouble - usually pretty calm!

Also young Mark Bradley came on and I think he miscontrolled the ball out over the end line and I can't remember who the player was but they were shouting into his face after he did it! No call for that kind of behaviour either.

That was Mark McHugh on Bradley, stood out for me as one of the more gypsy acts as there was no aggro between the two players and the ball had not even been contested by anybody prior to Bradley fumbling it (which he did more than once when he came on).

[redhandefender]

First comment ever on this and only because of this guy above who is stating Tyrone train their development squads to partake in sledging! Are you serious? I can categorically say that this has never happened and never will. Your point is absolutely ridiculous. Catch a grip would you and just stop watching tyrone games if your to soft.

Every team and every sport has players who will mouth at each other and always will. It comes from opponents playing on the edge! Anyone with half a brain should be able to take just like murphy and Cavanagh did yesterday.

It happened from both sides Donegal are as bad a s anyone if not the worst in the game. We have our own culprits obviously as does everyone else.

That was a pure physical battle yesterday and can only commend players for putting their bodies on the, obviously in those circumstances things will boil over. Donegal were/are the better team. Harte just does not have an answer for the blanket defence and we brought nothing new yesterday. We need a full fwd who can win his own ball and a free taker. Dan Mc Nulty from the under 21s seems like the obvious choice but will likely not paly whilst harte's in charge.

Qualifiers now, what a depressing monday

[JoG2]

that's a really poor forum name 'defender !

[laoislad]

Highlights of yesterdays game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPDd6HrYM3M

[Main Street]

To clear up one thing - the talk on here and suggestions on RTE that Cavanagh tried to get Gallagher sent off were completely inaccurate. Before the tv caught the incident Gallagher had grabbed Cavanagh three times by the throat. Then he walked behind him and tried to twist his arm which then turned into a pulling match. The only thing the ref and linesmen got wrong was that Cavanagh never should have been booked. I hate when refs/linesmen cop out and book both players when one is clearly only defending themselves.

Not a fan of Cavanagh due to his diving but in this incident he was completely innocent.

He is never completely innocent, he just wasn't fully guilty in that incident. I thought it was a 50/50, it took off when Cavanagh overreacted to a touch from Gallagher.
By that stage of the game Cavanagh  was overwrought/out of control.
Just after that (or was it just before?) , he made a desperate dolphin like attempt to win a free kick, right in front of Joe's nose. Any ref would have taken that as personal insult directed  to his intelligence. And soon after that, he copped a very soft 2nd card.
Maybe McQuillan could have exercised discretion in that incident and just had harsh words with Sean, pour a bucket of ice water over him.

Overall, I though McQuillan did well in difficult circumstances.

[imtommygunn]

To clear up one thing - the talk on here and suggestions on RTE that Cavanagh tried to get Gallagher sent off were completely inaccurate. Before the tv caught the incident Gallagher had grabbed Cavanagh three times by the throat. Then he walked behind him and tried to twist his arm which then turned into a pulling match. The only thing the ref and linesmen got wrong was that Cavanagh never should have been booked. I hate when refs/linesmen cop out and book both players when one is clearly only defending themselves.

Not a fan of Cavanagh due to his diving but in this incident he was completely innocent.

He is never completely innocent, he just wasn't fully guilty in that incident. I thought it was a 50/50, it took off when Cavanagh overreacted to a touch from Gallagher.
By that stage of the game Cavanagh  was overwrought/out of control.
Just after that (or was it just before?) , he made a desperate dolphin like attempt to win a free kick, right in front of Joe's nose. Any ref would have taken that as personal insult directed  to his intelligence. And soon after that, he copped a very soft 2nd card.
Maybe McQuillan could have exercised discretion in that incident and just had harsh words with Sean, pour a bucket of ice water over him.

Overall, I though McQuillan did well in difficult circumstances.

Gallagher kept going and going at him though - it wasn't just one grab. Don't get me wrong not a fan of Cavanagh's but in this instance thought he was innocent. Once Cavangh is within scoreable free range if he can't get a shot off (or a pass to someone in  much better position) he will fall over but that's all independent of that incident.

Ref was ok but not great. Justin McMahon should probably have had a lot more frees against him. People say he marked Murphy within the rules but a strict ref wouldn't have seen it as that. Also Christy Toye took the opportunity to do a Tyrone boy while the ball was coming in from a hospital pass. Lots of refs would have given red for that too.

[screenexile]

I think that's it from Tyrone. . . they'll not challenge any of the bigger teams.

They were under so much pressure to win that game and the Half Time nonsense proved it. They don't have the players they once did and they fought tooth and nail for everything yesterday but still couldn't get over the line. In fairness Donegal were never really in trouble after their goal in the first half.

For someone to say Tyrone would beat Dublin is laughable. They would get beat out the gate and no amount of close league games over the last few years is going to frighten anybody!!

[waterfordlad]

Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
This is a black card offence but has anyone been black carded yet for it. Surely this could be used to try cut down on the verbals seen yesterday. The second half was a mess yesterday after a decent first half.

[Jinxy]

To clear up one thing - the talk on here and suggestions on RTE that Cavanagh tried to get Gallagher sent off were completely inaccurate. Before the tv caught the incident Gallagher had grabbed Cavanagh three times by the throat. Then he walked behind him and tried to twist his arm which then turned into a pulling match. The only thing the ref and linesmen got wrong was that Cavanagh never should have been booked. I hate when refs/linesmen cop out and book both players when one is clearly only defending themselves.

Not a fan of Cavanagh due to his diving but in this incident he was completely innocent.

He is never completely innocent, he just wasn't fully guilty in that incident. I thought it was a 50/50, it took off when Cavanagh overreacted to a touch from Gallagher.
By that stage of the game Cavanagh  was overwrought/out of control.
Just after that (or was it just before?) , he made a desperate dolphin like attempt to win a free kick, right in front of Joe's nose. Any ref would have taken that as personal insult directed  to his intelligence. And soon after that, he copped a very soft 2nd card.
Maybe McQuillan could have exercised discretion in that incident and just had harsh words with Sean, pour a bucket of ice water over him.

Overall, I though McQuillan did well in difficult circumstances.

That was brilliant.
Reminded me of the end of Free Willy.