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Agreed but it started before then. The idea of the team doing a thirty minute warm up in the heat of salt hill last year prior to the Galway game  still gets to me. The temperature at four o'clock that day was 34 degrees in the stadium and our team spent half an hour in tortuous heat doing a nonsensnseical warm up. Galway took to the pitch for a two minute warm up and retreated to the changing room to get out of the sun. Our guys stood around baking in bright orange jerseys waiting for the match to start. When game started we were two yards off the pace and when the game was coming to its inevitable conclusion we were out on our feet and five yards off the pace. This was the time for management change not waiting until now or worse still to the end of the season.

Nearly at the stage where we need Tommy Lynch, Peter Makem, Joseph Canning and Gerry O Neill once again. Article about these guys in the Irish News a couple of weeks back talking about the early 1970s. Hope we are not heading back in this direction.

PJ mc Grane as you call him is still very active providing many of the players we were watching today through the county academy scheme.

Don't knock our women. Look at the men's teams in comparison to how our ladies teams are going at the minute. We are the poor relations in terms of winning matches at the minute.

Couldn't understand all the changes before the throw in either. Put that down to poor management not knowing what they are at as most of those who didn't start actually finished the game. Hope the big number of changes from those listed to start in the programme doesn't lead to a fine from croke park for the county board.

As for players not making cut from all ireland teams at U21 and minor grades think Andy Mallon Ciaran mc keeper and Aaron Kernan have had distinguished careers especially Aaron Kernan who has ever medal bar an all ireland senior championship at inter county level. Thought he was excellent in the first half not only with his play but directing others around him. Hope he gets full match fitness back soon. Of the minor players I would start all three of the minor full forward line of tanker mc parland and mc very for armagh in their positions the day they they won their title. Three confident c**k two footed players who have done it all against the Kerry's mayos and dublin sand have no fear of these teams. Would have a half forward line of soupy, Jamie and Carolann rafferty. Not a bad forward line out. Also think highly of young James Morgan hope he is fit soon shades of a skilful Francine bellwether in him who holds no fear of players such as the gooch. This is what geezer should be working on with a half back line of Andy  Aaron and Ciaran. Midfield from Harold raffle ratty and find on with full back line of Morgan toner and Murray. Leaves plenty of choice for experienced subs of Vernon t Kernan livery forker and others. It's up to the new manager but the talented players are there

Had a heart attack watching armagh v dublin 5/07/2003 but result was worth it.cant even get an angina pain watching armagh these days. Oh to be in a match with a chance of winning and to be competing coming to the end of a game as per Sligo as per Dublin as per Kerry and Tyrone games all those years ago. The joy of a tight match with the crowd cheering us over that winning line and basking in the joy of a handsome one point win. Bring it on now , don't need to give Big Paul any more time. Give Geezer the reigns now.

Take your point on Geezer having managed on his own and maybe ok I agree give it to geezer now not at the end of the year. Couldn't stand to see a repeat of no system football until the end of the year, that would entirely destroy armagh. Time to develop the system over the next six weeks and get them to stick to it. Our present system has been in place for two years now. I know the system may not be obvious to the fans but is it obvious to the players. Playing all out attacking football with all of you own players inside your own 50 yard line  only works in training with a set of temporary moveable nets in training. Maybe it's time to try and move that extra 90 yards to that second set of nets at the opposite end of the pitch.

All we need is the county board to grow some balls and say Paul thanks you tried your best now it's time to move on. Even the crowd at the game today had given up. When the players came out for the second half it was if we were in division three already and only a handful of people cheered. Terrible atmosphere. Won't do much for county finances or sponsors to see us in div 3 with small numbers at the games. Need a good run in the championship to get the crowd coming back and to attract them back next year. big Joe to lend his experience to put a sound footing in place for geezer. They may have their differences and may never kiss and make up but they are both solid armagh men at HEART.

Time to put the great debate to bed. Joe Kernan got very little credit for what he achieved as Armagh manager, everyone outside of south armagh said it was all down to Paul Grimley. Even Paddy O Rourke achieved more with Armagh. Time for Big Paul to hold his hands up and say that he gave it his best. Maybe time for Big Joe to take over again and to have Geezer as his number two as it seemed from being at the last couple of games that neither Geezer  nor Big Paul were even communicating with each other. Bring back Big Joe at least the players will be given a system of play. Haven't seen much sigh of a system for two years now. All out attacking football with all 15 players inside our own 50 yard line, come on who is trying to kid who.

bring back BIG JOE.