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Clones is as Ulster football as Cavan's 39 titles and goes back to partition plus NI's occasional lapses into communal violence. It's in the RoI and it can continue regardless of what chaos there is in the 6 counties. Cavan doesn't win as much when things are quiet. If Belfast has a fine stadium it should be used.

Seriously Seafoid? This is drivel!  You clearly don't have time to write out a reasoned post, so instead we have this one-liner, sweeping authoritative statement that does not stand up to scrutiny. I don't know why you do this because when you do take time to put together your thoughts they are worth reading. 

Martin Breheny seems to be constantly looking for problems in the GAA competition format and rules.  Is it not journalists likes him that have driven the never ending review of rules and structures by the GAA?  Time to stop listening and if they don't feckin like it, perhaps they're reporting on the wrong sports. 

If you don't mind we're trying to have an adult conversation here.

But you're not. You and a few others are 95% of the way through dreaming up the Tommy Murphy Cup in its entirety. As a conversation it is bereft of original thought, and refuses to acknowledge the elephant in the room that county footballers don't want this competition. This is not adult behaviour.

I think you're making a sweeping statement here Wobbler.

County footballers who are playing in Division 3, when they can realistically aspire to be playing at a higher level, might not want this competition.  For me that could be Down and possibly Cavan. It will be interesting to see the attitude of Cavan towards it if they lose to Donegal on Sunday, given that they are a team who are on the way back up, unlike Down.  I have a funny feeling they might embrace it. 

I'm not saying these teams do not deserve to be in Division 3/4.  The league tables don't lie.  But if you pull on a Down jersey for the first time, you're dreaming about All-Irelands and Ulsters, not a B competition. 

However, for almost every other Division 3/4 team, you would have to imagine that there is interest in this, since it is a national competition that any of the Division 3 teams stand a good chance of winning and could provide a stepping stone. 

[but ultimately it's the booby prize]

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/gaelic-football-news/down-star-barry-ohagan-claims-26855773

Hard to understand this mentality. Down are coming off the back of a season where they haven't won a match yet Barry O'Hagan reckons they should be competing to win Sam Maguire.

That's not what he's saying. He's saying the Tailteann cup is a pointless affair.

He will be proven right too.

He's as much chance of winning a Sam Maguire as Eoghan Sands has of winning a Liam McCarthy and that's the reality he and the football fraternity in Down need to live in and build from there.

I'd love to be proved wrong on both counts but it ain't going to happen.

Johnny this doesn't change the simple fact that if a large percentage of participants in a competition  are ambivalent about winning it, then there's likely something much more useful that everyone - players, managers, admin, supporters - could be doing wither their time.

And due to this simple fact, it is an un-marketable competition. Just like every previous version of the B championship. They can change the name and the format all they want, but ultimately it's the booby prize.

I'll not argue with you on that and it's only a matter of time before Croke Park marginalise it even further and yes, I'd be of the opinion that Down need a stronger club scene before they can move on at IC level.

Given the reports of ill-discipline coming out of the Down camp, it doesn't look like they had much in the way of respect for the county or any of the competitions they were playing in this year.  Coming off the back of the season that they had, I would be saying nothing if I was him. 

Genuinely as an armagh man watching the game live  in ballybofey  and actuallyclose to that end of the ground I thought it was a free out so I don't see the angst over it.

Armagh should be more concerned at the inept performance on the pitch and on the side line .
We were bullied across the pitch and in reality could have been beaten out the gate by half time.

Agreed,
I cannot understand the fuss over the goal - It might have kick-started a recovery but I doubt it. Armagh only played with intensity for 10 minutes at the start of the second half and didn't even manage to score a single point during that period of pressure. It was a 7 point hammering.

Truth be told, Armagh scoring has been on a downward trajectory from the first two league games and they are back to the kind of slow approach play and caution that we seen pre-2021. 

https://gript.ie/treating-turf-cutters-like-drug-dealers-anger-as-eamon-ryan-to-outlaw-sale-of-turf/

Gobshite Greens nearly as bad as people before profit

Drives me mad:
Just look at air travel - Dublin airport passengers gives a good indication.

• 1989 5m passengers
• 2019 33m passengers

Yet the Greens want to outlaw the sale and transfer of turf.

It's like the Emperor's New Clothes.

This thread is the greatest pile of dung. Just saying.......

[This type of muck goes all the way back to their early 2000s teams.]

You'd have to feel sorry for the Armagh supporters

Their players are ill-disciplined and deserve these punishments. The fans should be more upset at their players than anything else.

It's no surprise at all to me that they are constantly involved in incidents like this. This type of muck goes all the way back to their early 2000s teams.

Would you go away and scratch yourself!

There is no doubt that the players are at fault and I'd say that the three Armagh players sanctioned are feeling pretty stupid right now.

You're implying that this is a systemic problem in Armagh football.  It's a systemic issue in the GAA, but at this rate of going, it won't be an issue for much longer - among Ulster teams at least.  Players will learn to walk away rather than risk suspension. 

I imagine the Armagh/Donegal lads will have been done for something very general, like contributing to a melee.  If that is the case, then I'd like to see similar suspensions doled out to every county in Ireland and not just Ulster teams for contributing to a melee (Kerry/Dublin anyone?).  I'm sure there were plenty of other melees across the four divisions this year. 

Watched some of the row there.  Couldn't make out who was involved and difficult to see much more than a bit of pulling and pushing. Didn't see many headlocks or striking, but unlike the Tyrone / Armagh match where the row was right in front of the papparazi, there doesn't seem to be much definitive flying about on social media.  Mind you, I'm sure the authorities will have all sorts of camera angles that we don't. 

Absolutely stupid for players to get involved in that shite (particularly Armagh players) in what turned out to be a meaningless game for them. 

On another note, which Armagh player gave away the penalty?

So many ways the tables can be decided.

Likely outcome I believe

Tyrone win. Kerry have nothing to play for but it depends on if they want to relegate Tyrone.

Kildare win. Mayo don't want to go into the league final - evident last week they don't really want it.

Donegal win. Do Donegal want to force Armagh into another game before their championship meeting? If they win and Mayo lose, Armagh have no choice as there could be more than 3 teams on 7 points.

Dublin win. Won't be good enough as the three teams above them would have won meaning they are relegated on 6 points along with Monaghan on 4.

From an Armagh perspective, any national final is a good one to be in, however, not sure how getting a potential tanking from Kerry in Croke Park a couple of weeks before Championship would serve them well.  However, if both Mayo and Armagh lose, depending on the margin of Kildare's win vs Armagh's loss, one of them could end up in the league final.

I completely see your logic but there are 3 worthwhile trophies to play for all season (of which the national league is one) and we are talking about the potential fear of receiving a beating in a national final. If that is the attitude (and I'm not saying that it is yours but I have heard it said by some) then what is the point in turning out. If Armagh get to the final they will at least be competitive and I would hope that some lessons would have been learned from Sundays match to put into practice the next day. The more exposure they have to these high level games the better as far as I'm concerned. 

The same thing applies to Mayo in facing Kildare and some of the talk that they might want to avoid a League final. Neither of these counties are exactly laden with national titles so I don't see why they should be trying to avoid them for fear of receiving a hiding. That said I don't expect either county to play with full sides nor full motivation at the weekend. If Armagh happened to get to a League final on scoring difference then it would be great preparation for championship imo. Much better than anything that could be gained from a training session.

I'd love to see Armagh in the NFL Final, especially in Croke Park.  The more games they get in HQ, the better for this team.  So if it is to happen, bring it on.  The only fear is a bad day out against Kerry, and picking up the pieces just a few weeks before a trip to Ballybofey, but would still want to see Armagh in a national final none the less.  Likewise on Sunday, do Armagh go full tilt with their potential championship line out and go for the win ... a big call to be made on that front by management.  I don't think they will.

One thing that won't be lost on the Armagh management before the championship is that their scoring has been drying up. 
1-7 v Monaghan (albeit a terrible evening), 1:10 v Kildare, 1:10 v Mayo, 13pts v Kerry. 

Meanwhile they scored 2:15 v Dublin and 2:14 v Tyrone. Their average score in last year's four league games was 18.5 points. 

13 points would have won many's a championship match in the 1990s, but won't win too many in the 2020s. 

The main difference seems to be more wides and I think that's because they are shooting under more pressure in turn because the competition have been figuring them out.  Or have they found it difficult to maintain the workrate that allowed them to get up and down the pitch against Dublin / Tyrone and as a consequence the forward play is suffering?

On RTE last night, they talked about Kerry for 5 or 6 minutes without ever even mentioning Armagh, then in the final 20 seconds, Colm Boyle said Armagh were flat, Joanne agreed that they were a bit flat, then Colm Boyle repeated that Armagh looked flat.  That was it!!

Then for The All Ireland Champions v Mayo, Joanne said, "A good win there for Tyrone, Colm lets talk about Mayo"

It was a bit of a joke alright. All you could do was laugh at it.  Kerry won by three points and they had to work for it.  They did keep Armagh at arms length for most of the game, but they were under serious pressure with their kickouts in the last 15-20 mins and there wasn't a word about it - it was basically a Kerry love in. If they were only going to analyse Kerry - at least analyse the good and the bad. 

Joanne seems to be challenging the pundits a bit, particularly O'Rourke and Spillane, particularly if she thinks they are being inconsistent.  It definitely needs done and she's right to do it.  I'm not sure I like the way she goes about it - bit too pleased with herself or something - would be surprised if it isn't pissing the two old codgers off.
 

[The Good:]

Entertaining game yesterday in the Athletic Grounds - intensity was high even if quality was poor at time.

It had a bit of everything:

The Good:

Clifford a class act and great to watch.  Also the speed Kerry moved the ball into the full forward line was fantastic.  However, it was most apparent when Armagh were pressing up the Kerry kickout and it did give them scope to move it long and fast into space. 
 
Campbell done well when he came on - scoring a great point and breaking tackles.  Also, Armagh's intensity at the end, turning over Kerry a number of times and winning the midfield battle, was very impressive.  Other teams will take note.

Foley done a great marking job on O'Neill, but in fairness, anytime he had possession, he was double marked.  Clifford on the other hand was playing in acres of space (on a number of occasions) at the other end of the pitch.  It wasn't just the second half - I was kind of surprised that Armagh ended the first half without conceding a goal, even though there were no clear cut chances - if you know what I mean. 

The bad
A lot of bad wides from both teams and some of them uncharacteristic.  Grugan hit three bad ones for Armagh.  Kerry hit a succession in the first half and could have been out of sight.  However, I would prefer to seem teams kicking a ball wide, than taking an extra pass and giving away a turnover, which in Armagh's case, meant that they were exposed up front.  Burns played well and scored an excellent point, but starting to find myself getting annoyed with him always taking an extra bounce or a solo when it needs moved quickly - or not taking the shot, when the shot is on. 

A good goal chance which should have been burried by Duffy. Rafferty's decision making for the Kerry goal was all over the place, but chances are it would have been scored anyway. Felt for him, but he didn't let it ruin him.  He performed well after that, particularly under the high ball. 

The Ugly
Kerry quite cynical and both Armagh and the officials seemed to give them too much respect.  Fouled Armagh a lot between the two 50s and Kerry guilty of a lot of pulling and dragging off the ball.  I think Armagh will learn a lot from the game - at least they should.  Armagh were rattled by their tactics and their intensity in the first 10 minutes - they were too nice. Forker was remonstrating with the ref - he actually followed him across the pitch, arms outstretched, while Kerry still had the ball in play inside the Armagh half.  It just proved that Armagh could be got at. 

Referee was bad for both teams, but it definitely seemed that Armagh found it harder to get frees.  He seemed to indicate that he blew Grugan for diving when Armagh needed a goal at the end - seemed crazy to me.

Finally, was it just me or did Armagh seem to be slipping a lot yesterday on the surface.  Rafferty for the goal was the obvious one, but on at least 5 or 6 occasions players seemed to slip - costing them possession.

This story might explain where some of the annoyance comes from:

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2022/01/18/rosary-group-drowned-out-stand-for-ashling-event/

Irish News' Cahair O'Kane covered it well in today's paper:

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/03/15/news/kicking-out-gpa-s-key-fumbling-at-an-open-door-leaves-serious-questions-2614746/

It would be worth asking if some of the those out voicing support for the GPA or critical of the GAA / Colm O'Rourke are:
1. Drawing an income themselves from GAA related activities
2. Engaged in the kind of intensive coaching requirements mentioned in the ESRI report

[BUT do the GPA not preach about work/life balance.]

I know it's easy for younger lads on Twitter to roar dinosaur at O'Rourke and that he is living in the past BUT do the GPA not preach about work/life balance.
So, should the GPA be having a go at the county managers flogging their lads - wanting them out five times a week? Should they not be having a go at the same managers for calling trainings at 6am and all that other shite?

Do you know of any lads here from all our counties who have lost out majorly? In fact any lads I know had one or two scholarships and got jobs in decent companies with doors opened for them.

And best of luck to them. I genuinely think they deserve every perk, but there has to be a point where it stops.

That's a really important point that you've made.  Their position on this is completely incoherent. 

If you support work/life/training balance, why would you tolerate training 10 times a week - Did Tom Parsons not actually say that whether a player is training 2 or 10 times, it should make no difference - that they should be paid expenses?

Training 10 times a week is to train twice daily, at least three times a week and if you take account of games and rest, it is really training twice daily 5 days a week.  This is the lifestyle of a professional athlete.