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A vicious circle thats never ending it seems... It's a pity people wont let go, I can imagine seeking justice would be your primary role in life if you have lost a loved one, thats over 3,500 who died over the troubles that families won't let go and i get that, a proper truth commission is the only way.. once through that then people can heal (of sorts)

I didnt realise there was still that much bitterness on here, doesn't take much for it to rise to the surface

There is no chance you or anyone else would ask Peadar to 'let go'. It would be unfair to ask that. He has some horrible injuries and trauma caused by someone else. In fact, we would expect him to not let go or move on. Nor would we describe him as bitter. We would all argue he has a right to be angry and frustrated but would not use the word 'bitter'.
THis applies to all victims. There are many victims on all sides. Some victims deal with it in a different way to others. Victims should not be expected to have the same approach as each other nor the same approach as non victims. To ask them to 'let it go' is inhumane. It needs a much wider all inclusive approach.

A poster claimed earlier that it doesn't take much to stir up the bitterness. This is not the case. For that poster this is a reminder. One which pops up now and then. Victims live with reminders everyday. Peadar does not need a headline story or a national debate to remind him of how he feels.

There is a hierarchy of victims. There always is. There is a wider acceptance that those hurt by security forces in some way, regardless of who they are, hold some of the responsibility. If not then the community do, or the political leaders do etc. It is clearer to see the outrage of prisoners being abused in Guatanamo Bay by Irish people yet accusations of torture in Ireland do not cause outrage. There is blame attached to the victims here.

There is never the same innocence applied to victims of the security forces. That's the winners writing the history as we watch it unfold. Victims of security forces are asked to let it go or to move on much more than victims of paramilitaries. I think it's wrong to ask this of any victim. Addressing it is the only cure, forgetting or ignoring won't solve anything.

They want to be as british as Finchley, but I'm sure the farmers in Finchley aren't shipping their meat and dairy products to processing plants in the South of Ireland.

What about the poultry farmers?

Breggsit will impact them too.

If I knew who they were I wouldn't be asking you to name them.

It will only open another debate we won't agree on. I'll pass.

SF joined the Police Boards and supported policing as a consequence of the St Andrew's agreement as the only way that the DUP would partner them in an Executive and allow them into government.

yes, I agree it was that also.

What does this mean?

Regardless of any truth in it or not - If i joined the PSNI I would have a fear of leaving myself open to manipulation from ranks higher than community police and not exclusive to the police.
No matter how much SF preached the opposite it wouldn't change that fear.

This is a legacy issue, not a community police issue. It must be viewed in context with the legacy we inherit. I am a product of that legacy. Some people see today or yesterday as a starting point. I don't, I see it as a line going back decades. SF cannot change how I see it.
I would not attempt to prevent anyone joining the PSNI. I would not encourage anyone to join. I do not believe nationalists joinging the PSNI will serve to address the problems of the past. And as these problem have not been addressed they are now the problems of the present and will be the problems of the future. The only way nationalists will join in big numbers is if this is addressed or enough time passes that they are no longer an issue. Neither of those has happened yet.
I know there are many that share that opinion with me. Disagreeing with me is fine but saying my fears aren't real as part of that argument means nothing to me.

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

If SF truly believed in having a community police force then it would be encouraging and championing the recruitment of young Catholics but it doesn't, simply paying lip service to PSNI support while sitting on the Policing Boards.  Just another Adams' strategy to maintain community agitation and strife.

That's not the full story though and you know it.

Policing doesn't start or stop at community policing. There are no complaints about police dealing with shoplifting or drink driving.
If your issue is with SF then you only only fighting a small part of the problem. This problem has many players including SF.

RTE is increasingly becoming watchmojo.com

How do you do this though? Serious question. Should they have recruited Guards or British officers??

Most top level jobs in the police force are managerial.
Any well educated and capable person who understands law could do these roles in conjunction with serving members of the force. It happens all over the world and in all civic departments.
Usually military and police are promoted from within but they are often subject to politicians such as Mayors or Department heads. The Minister for health does not need to be a doctor, the Chief Executive of the NHS does not need to be a doctor and the manager of a hospital does not need to be a doctor.
Why this isn't applied to the PSNi is any ones guess.
There is no administrative reason not to change many at the top.

Anyway I think I'm done on here as can't be bothered with the constant childish crap from the newbies and the constant over the top negativity. I think you lads should be left too your fun without being interrupted by reason and logic.

Yes. I flick through 90% of the posts and threads here.
You can find decent content but you need to get to recognize the poster before you spend any time continuing.

I don't know what you've said as you've change it, should have quoted it 

I changed it to include

I've seen it suggested here a few times without basis. Same trick Brolly used to attack Kickhams.

It had no bearing on your comment or my reply.

The unbalance at the top in the PSNI will persist as long as catholics aren't encouraged to join and see comments such as this.

I understand this and it is true to an extent but it is not without an opposing and valid argument.

Firstly, do we accept there is an imbalance and do we accept that as fundamental and true and therefore we must allow it?
Is a balanced police force something we should aim to achieve or demand as a right?

While there arguments for both in the current environment I am not sure which is right. If pushed I believe demanding it now a better option. It does take me to be pushed however, 10 or 15 years ago i would have pushed back.

What are we on a GAA forum talking about anyway? The price of garden furniture? Some amount of Snowflake princesses on here. Hypothetically if I was getting critism for my performances on the pitch I wouldn't start crying like a baby but go back out and prove the doubters wrong!

Criticism is not the problem.

Seriously give it a rest about Aidan McCrory. Jesus just leave the lad alone. I'm sure he gives up a serious amount of sacrifices to play for Tyrone and you get a bunch of idiots on here constantly go on about him. It's getting seriously boring at this stage.

Agreed. There's a difference in criticism and abuse.

[If we continue to look to the past we wont get anywhere]

If we continue to look to the past we wont get anywhere, putting up barriers everytime hasnt moved us on a lot also, the collapse of the local government seems to suit peoples agendas.. keep the fires burning

Brolly's story was about the pass. This is what we are discussing. Brolly seemed to forget that at the time it was in the present.

And if its the case that they want to be a policeman or woman, (transgender, gay or whatever) what odds? As for the sweeping statement of you know they arent doing it for a better policing is wrong also, as you dont know this to be the case

I said, I'm convinced and i believe it's the case. I made the point that it is me as an individual that thinks this not that it is some common fact.

In that I was referring to the idea in the original article that Peadar was motivated by civic duty which has been widely referred to in the wider media. I do not believe this is the case in anyone joining the PSNI.

If more of our side were to join the PSNI/RUC do people really think it will change, i dont. Its the people at the top that call the shots and they will always come from the protestant community , i have no doubt the Catholics in the force would be used for unsavory jobs by their protestant superiors.

They will only be at the top for so long. It will change, it has to but stop looking for changes right away or even in the short term, new recruits in the past 5/10 years are still learning their trade so to speak, the dinosaurs at the top need to retire but there is no experience there id imagine to fill it....

also the Cops are run by the government..

keep calling it the RUC and it wont attract the changes people in nationalist areas want, as the ordinary Joe from the Falls wont join! as someone mentioned above, there are a lot out there that would prefer things to be boiling over as it gives them an excuse to create tensions between the police... Hopefully you won't have to call on the PSNI/RUC for any issues as you'll not trust them

If we look at this as a policing issue we will never get there. This is a legacy issue. If you want to get there we need a Truth Commission.

Your suggestion that some people would prefer things to boil over is a red herring. A minority not worth counting might prefer this. The rest of us want peace and justice and a fair reading of history with fair policing in the future.
I've seen it suggested here a few times without basis. Same trick Brolly used to attack Kickhams. 
There is nobody who does not want a police service they can have a relationship with. Again, the reasons why that is not the case across the board has nothing to do with Nationalists not joining. It's decades of built division. You are right, this will take time. Without a Truth Commission it will take a long time. There will never be a truth Commission and so it will take a long time.
If someone has already arrived at forgiveness or just have apathy then good for you. That does not give the right to judge those that are not there.

I'm fully convinced that no Nationalist wants to join the police force to better their community. I don't believe this is a motive for young people even though they might argue it and be told it after joining. the main motive for people joining the PSNI (on both sides) is because they want to be a police man or police woman.